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[–]lefterfield 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I think it's just a general psychology of never wanting to tell anyone they're wrong, even when they're doing things that harm themselves or others. Not a direct link per se, but a philosophical connection between both ideas.

[–]OrneryStruggle 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

imagine thinking that it makes sense to "tell fat people they are wrong" for being fat and wanting to eat healthy/exercise. lmfao.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Culture today is really messed up. Sometimes we have to be "judgmental" and tell people that we think they're hurting themselves by continuing their behavior. If they don't like that opinion, they're free not to listen. But staying silent when you watch your friends or family member slowly kill themselves is far more cruel than hurting their feelings for a moment.

[–]OrneryStruggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

you're hurting yourself and others by continuing this ridiculous behaviour of sanctimoniously telling fat people to stop caring about their health. you're free not to listen though.

imagine literally wanting fat people to kill themselves and ruin their health because you hate the normalization of fat people becoming healthier.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Who are you addressing? I've never supported any of the things you're saying.

[–]OrneryStruggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

HAES is a method/strategy of helping fat people become healthier and you are arguing that it is wrong and you think you should shame and discourage people who want to improve their health as fat people. Not sure what's confusing.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I never said HAES itself is wrong, actually, but what I've seen of fat acceptance from INDIVIDUALS is a complete denial that obesity leads to more health problems. It does. That doesn't mean skinny people are always healthy or that overweight people are always unhealthy, but ignoring the actual risks doesn't help anyone get healthier either. I also never said we should discourage people who want to improve their health, that's a ridiculous claim and a distortion of what I did say - everyone should seek to improve their health. But if someone is not doing so at all, I don't think it's helpful for their friends and family to quietly sit by, or cheer them on as "valid" for their life choices - which is often what seems to happen.

[–]OrneryStruggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Your original comment very clearly did imply that you think HAES itself is wrong. It was a response to the OP which said there's a type of women who support HAES philosophy and you put it down to "a general psychology of never wanting to tell anyone they're wrong, even when they're doing things that harm themselves or others". I then responded "imagine thinking that it makes sense to "tell fat people they are wrong" for being fat and wanting to eat healthy/exercise" and you responded "Sometimes we have to be "judgmental" and tell people that we think they're hurting themselves by continuing their behavior." If this is not a clear implication that you think you "have to" tell fat people they are wrong for wanting to be healthy and exercise, I don't know what it is. It seems pretty unambiguous to me in context but maybe you meant something different.

No one is denying that obesity can led to health problems, including the obesity researchers who started the HAES initiative. The point is that you are telling people you need to tell them they are wrong for TRYING TO IMPROVE THEIR HEALTH. Which is what HAES is about. It is about people trying to improve their health, independent of their size.

You are saying you feel like you have to tell friends and famiy members who are fat and trying to improve their health that they are wrong for doing so. There's nothing at all positive or defensible about this position.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah, I don't believe I said that, anywhere. I've stated my explanation for what I've seen from fat acceptance online, and if I'm wrong about it and HAES never gives the same impression - cool. Then I'm wrong. I'm not going around telling fat people to fuck off about trying to get healthy, as you're claiming.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I just directly quoted your previous posts, see above.

"fat acceptance" (whatever that means) is not the same as HAES, which is a health initiative started by a group of obesity researchers to combat the counterproductive weight loss methods hitherto touted by the medical establishment, which were historically making obese people fatter and sicker. Clinical trials of HAES methodologies show that people on HAES interventions tend to lose a similar amount of weight as people on other diet/exercise interventions (so, a small amount that is often regained) but their overall health improves more than it does on other interventions. There are no downsides to this that I can see except that a lot of people are big mad that fat people have the audacity to put their general health higher on their priority list than looking socially acceptable.