When did your friend/family member peak?

submitted by PeakingPeachEater from self.GenderCritical

Just curious, I have a cool, new friend that we have a LOT in common(similar traditional cultural upbringing that had sexist roles, same interests, certain perspectives,etc), however, she believes in pansexuality, non-binary, and that trans people are the sex they claim to be.

Was wondering if others had/have friends as so?

I peaked YEARS ago when I left home at an early age and explored on my own, that's also when I detransitioned. Furthermore, I realized how sexist the TRA movement really is! But everywhere around me, people say it's "okay" and I felt like I was going crazy. That's when I found GC on reddit and lurked for years.

Anyhow...Before peaking, I wanted to transition, I had extreme body dysphoria. I was a TiF who got bullied in school for being a masculine looking girl and got confused as a boy often, so I thought maybe I should be a boy for real. I realized that I didn't need to conform to be "normal"...

I haven't had much discussions about these GC points with said friend. I did mention one time about not agreeing with children transitioning but friend was a bit offended, and she pretty much said it's not hurting anybody and "how can we say how they feel?". Then I specified that I meant medical transitioning the young is wrong(even though I'm against all transitioning, but I wanted to see what she'd say) because of the side effects, she didn't really respond to that point while we were messaging each other.

I also have a TiM cousin who used to bully me for things he likes now that I used to like when I was younger lol. It's kinda crazy to think about...

How do you talk about the "trans" topic with friends in a way that is constructive? Or I guess the gender topic? My friend also believes nonbinary is real too...and is pan while I am bi.

My siblings are ALL against the TRA movement, but they're also rather...traditional/reserved, but we still have interesting conversations and have changed eachothers minds on certain topics or at least are able to sympathize with one another. We don't really argue about controversial topics, we just discuss and try to find middle ground but...I know my siblings best. With other people, I am not sure how to temper(?) or adapt(?) conversation in a way they understand, you know? I also come from a different cultural bg from friend, my friend has western views.

EDIT: I've been meaning to reply to everyone's post, sorry if I did not get to your comment! I've been working a lot of hours lately at my company...very little sleep...need to work as much as possible right now due to life circumstances.

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[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

When did they peak? Never. My old man doesn't believe man can be woman alright, but he thinks I'm exaggerating when it comes to men invading women's spaces. I can never get a more deep discussion about it cause he feels attacked if I go "patriarchy this and that" and stuff.

My sis is a libfem, which is a shame cause she is way smarter and more eloquent than me. She is also a lesbian, so I feel like she's bound to a rude awakening.. I also believe she doesn't have much contact with trans people, especifically TIMs so theres that.

My mom believes TIMs are harmless gay men that just want to pee..

I don't have many friends these days but the ones I have don't seem to care about trans issues, or know anything about it. They probably think trans people are just gay men and lesbians trying to escape homophobia and that transitioning is harmless, "it's not hurting anyone".

I dunno how I would talk about it with other people, I was severely bullied in my teens, and the thought that I could be bullied again for believing men are not women is probably what makes me think twice before engaging this kinda conversation with strangers offline. Also I'm desisted, I identified as trans man for years but never transitioned.. so, seeing how people tend to dismiss detransitioners as "not really trans" and hateful, I feel my experiences with the trans community will not be heard, they'll just accuse me of lying. Feels like there's no way to win.

[–]vitunrotta 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

don't seem to care about trans issues, or know anything about it

This is the biggest problem, in my opinion. I only found out how far spread and dangerous this whole thing had grown into as my sister kept sending me links to certain posts. I admit I thought it was a general overreaction at first (not hers, but the radfems), things cannot be that bad, I mean... Can they?! Then I actually read all these things she'd sent me and I have been steadily peaking since. But it's really hard to convince anyone that this is a REAL issue because it's very coyly hiding behind the "progressive veil," and it's made to look like some innocent little thing like cAn i JusT peE?!

As for older and in some cases very traditional people: like you said, they certainly do NOT believe men can be women (or vice versa) but see this whole ordeal as complete nonsense on both sides. Trying to get a point across about women-only spaces is a no go, because they don't understand the need for these spaces in the first place. Also, a lot of men are unfortunately VERY unempathetic towards anything that doesn't directly concern them, and duly shut their eyes and ears and go on with their merry lives. I have told my partner (male) about these things, and he is DEFINITELY on my side in this, but he's not the one to take any sort of action about this either. It's not his problem, you see...

I'm sorry to hear about your experience about detransitioning also, and that you're basically now considered an outcast in your own community. That sounds horrible. I hope you get some support somewhere, and at least know that there are people who - while perhaps not understanding the depths of your situation - are sympathetic towards it. Like this GC platform, hopefully.

(Side question: hope I'm not prying but I'm curious about your username, as it sounds Portuguese? I live in Lisbon myself, so it piqued my interest. If you do not feel comfortable saying where you are from though, I completely understand.)

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes. It's portuguese. I'm brazillian. Guys here use it to insult each other "Deixa de ser mulherzinha" like "Stop being such a pussy". It literally means little woman.

[–]vitunrotta 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sim eu sei... Infelizmente. Thought you'd be from Brazil or from here. Anyway, nice that you use it as a "weaponized" version now, ha! :)

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Não sou brasileiro nem portuguesa pero...all I can say is I come from similar background. In our language, a lot of derogatory words are female specific. Is it like that in portuguese too?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. I remember reading an article many years ago that showed that it is like this in many different languages, can't seen to find it now, but it was very interesting. Most people just don't think about it.

[–]tuesday 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's not his problem, you see...

And yet their problems are supposed to be our problems, and we're supposed to bend over backwards to help them with every little thing.

So tired of it all, I want a woman only COUNTRY.

[–]vitunrotta 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have been with my partner for over 7 years and obviously we have are connected on very deep levels... But yes, even I sometimes think, fuck all this - I will pack my bags and move to a place where it's only WOMEN. This is not to undermine my relationship although it does sound like it; rather, I have realized over the years that it has taken a lot of my energy to get some simple points about equality through, and it's been tiring sometimes. I could have spent all that time doing something else!

Things are good now, though. So I will allow him to live with me still (I am a noble creature), and won't apply for residency in Womanland just yet :)

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yep! The men in my life don't quite grasp what we go through as women. They don't see how we're effected by this. I have to admit, when I in the "transitioning phase" I thought people were overreacting about the "gender-neutral bathrooms" but after peaking, I see what the problem is with that. If I understood correctly, are they wanting to make bathrooms for both men AND women to "do their business" together? That seems HIGHLY uncomfortable. From what I've seen in my travels though, the gender-neutral toilet is just a one stall?? Basically a family bathroom, no?

Right now, I work with a TiM as my boss...I've always wondered if he used the women's bathroom or the "gender-neutral" ones that our "progressive" workspace provides...

[–]distortedlinds 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ive gone full info sucking up all this information and seeing how many angles this transgender movement has (its HEAVY), my husband i watch 1 video a day about listening to someone explain it, or reveal things..and hes slowly REALLY understood the deep fuckery of all this. ive been amazed at watching him totally get it, its been beautiful. its been uncomfortable for him at times because it is SO much information and seriously depressing, and i told him i cant explain why this is a something innately inside me i have to research (i do a podcast revealing all this). but we've found a happy medium of discussing and even joking about it, because even for me its been too much at times so i really do have to take breaks. my research has been nonstop. (listen top my podcast called: Life Through a Distorted Linds to hear more)

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can very much relate to you. My pops is old school, and in his culture(and my mother's, who is from different culture/nationality) they have traditional views of what women can and cannot do. When I was younger, I would be locked up in the house while my brothers could do whatever they wanted because "you're a girl, they're boys". I also hate that people refer to women as "girls" but not men as "boys", it does not make sense to me. It seems a bit deaming...

Anyhow, when I brought up to the mum about my cousin being TiM, she thought he was just a gay man and that it was whatever but did not see the bigger picture. However, she is known to flip flop sides, just to be antagonizing to me on purpose. I KNOW she does not favour LGB people nor trans nor atheists. I happen to be two of those things (The B in LGB and atheist). Her country is deeply catholic...

Same, pretty much I saw myself as a "boy" and HATED being seen as a girl but I did not take hormones nor get surgery. For one, it was scary. Two, I was/am not a fan of plastic surgery...So much can go wrong. Three, I was deeply confused. I THOUGHT I would be happy if I woke up as a boy one day and felt deeply depressed. But, I felt much like this due to culture background of people around me saying "boys can do this, girls CAN'T do that" which felt limiting...

[–]lefterfield 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My mom is a liberal feminist, but she always thought the TRA stuff was nonsense. All that was required to "peak" her was to convince her that it was more pervasive and insidious than she believed, given that she doesn't pay attention to news about legal challenges or LGBT related stuff. My best friend peaked over a series of many conversations, some very angry and confrontational - though in fairness, many of our arguments are like that, because she's a very passionate person. When she cools down, she reevaluates ideas. Mostly it was explaining to her about autogynephilia, which she got because she's done a lot of studies on the male gaze in media. That, and just bringing up all the ways it does hurt women and children - locker rooms, prisons, sports, statistical data, etc.

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, that is a good point! (autogynephilia). Not sure how I would bring it up to friend...I'll just start slowly. I have a TiM boss who's basically like that. But...I'm careful on what I say, I don't DISLIKE TiM boss BECAUSE he's trans, but I dislike him based on his personality....and he happens to be trans...

I haven't really met any other people who have similar views to me(in real life) because they are on either leaning very hard one way or the other, I would say I'm in the middle, moderate. Maybe my siblings but they're all male and sometimes...They don't get it...And it's annoying trying to explain myself over and over again with them so I give up lol.

The youngest sibling is very anti-feminist and his behaviour disgusts me on how he treats women, he literally has a "check-list" of things he wants to do and doesn't care about their feelings ("First GF? Check. Lost virginity? Check. Now need to make her pregnant so she can't leave me lol") There's not getting thru to him that it's wrong. I might have to make separate post but ugh. Another time.

[–]Agodachi 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm reading some answers here (I've also seen other answers related to TRA nonsense and how families receive it) and I'm quite surprised by the amount of parents who support it. I live in the United States and I grew up in an immigrant family. They certainly don't support the trans community but they also don't support gay, lesbian, or bisexual people either. I should mention that my family is also Muslim (although they are quite liberal compared to other Muslims) so in general, LGBT stuff is not supported, especially when compared to Christianity and Judaism.

I can assure you that most immigrant households throughout the U.S. don't support this trans nonsense but they're also not fully aware of it either. Most immigrant familys are working tough, blue-color jobs and don't really have the time or energy to spend doing research on trans issues going on. Hell, some members of my family don't even know that this is going on. From my experience I've seen this reflected in many households, whether it's African, East Asian, Southeast Asian, Arab, Latino, or European (mainly Eastern European, because the few West European immigrants I have met are quite wealthy, privileged and supportive if this stuff). Again, immigrant households are typically more traditional and religious, so they aren't really supportive of LGBT stuff in general.

Sorry for my unrelated tangent but I felt like including that point here. Now to answer the question, my family has never quite "peaked," they never supported this stuff in the first place. I do try to let my parents know what is going on, and they'll be quite surprised to know that some colleges let TIMs room with females and it leads to a domino effect of sorts where they sometimes bring these issues up with their friends.

When it comes to my friends who have "peaked" they've usually been the ones who have never really understood or supported the trans stuff. My childhood friend never understood or supported it but eventually had to put up with it and try and ignore it because she was attacked for asking questions in high school. The few other friends and family (my age) are quite similar, they don't understand or approve of it but they don't engage in discussion about it and aren't really aware of how bad things are getting.

I wish I had a friend who peaked, because I really supported this stuff before, so it would be nice to talk to someone in a similarsituation. The discussions I have with my friends are way tame compared to the ones happening here.

[–]vitunrotta 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's odd, isn't it - to find a strange alliance with people who you'd usually butt heads with. My parents are super conservative Christians and against any LGB stuff, but they're also very likely against this TRA nonsense. So we come at the same conclusion from different sides of the spectrum. Or I should say: a similar conclusion. For them, it's of course imperative that women are women and men are men. They don't understand the depths of this issue, nor do they really care. Also, gay people for them are nothing but perverted sinners so... Yeah. I won't start poking that beehive. I know it would just end up in a fight anyway.

I'm lucky in that my own sister was the one who peaked first, so we can talk about this to each other. What about that childhood friend of yours, would she be open to any kind of discussion or is it truly a dead end? What was she questioned about originally, did it make her pro-TRA?

[–]Agodachi 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My friend is Christian, so she thought boys being girls and girls being boys didn't make sense. Her reasoning was that "God made female and male." She started a discussion with a TIF about what supposedly made her male, and this fight broke out. Imagine this, a young black girl who's gone through a lot of abuse growing up being verbally attacked by a towering, grown white man and white girls in denial about how she doesn't know struggle and should check her privilege. Ever since then, she never really wanted to engage in discussion about it again. If she came across a trans person, she used their preferred pronouns and name and went on with her life. Another time she kindly asked someone "what made someone feel like a man." The specialgenderqueertrans kids at school didn't like that so they talked badly behind her back spreading rumors.

I can talk to her about these issues but she really isn't invested in them. She's quite busy so she doesn't really want to spend her freetime talking about something like this. Sometimes I'll rant to her, she'll listen and agree but I don't want to stress her out considering her experience.

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I come from a family with immigrant mother. She's deeply Catholic. Yeah, neither of my parents agree with the T nonsense, they think it's just gay men crossdressing. So...When I try to explain to my mom about TiM cousin how it's just...wrong...She basically waved it off and was like "knew he was gay/different" but she didn't really GET the trans issue. She just doesn't favour LGB nor the T nor non religious people (if you're not Catholic she doesn't like, even if Christian, she'll just "tolerate").

[–]Eurowoman24 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I've tested the waters with a part of this issue I find people may be more perceptive too - pressure in dating prospects and so far a few friends think it's crazy too and my sibling well.. she's seems to be delving into the depth of the SJW black hole and is now telling my WAY more reasonable mother that she should be worried about my conservative bigotted views. Hilarious when her only reply to "lesbians are homosexuals and by definition are not attracted to male physical characteristics and it's more then reasonable for them not to want to have to deal with a penis" was " but they're invalidating them as women"... I find that the ones not open to discussion with valid points are usually troubled, and/or need a purpose in life which is how being a SJW is so attractive.

Edit to add: She's never had a trans friend in her life and these are the people she would have avoided in HS for being outcasts and weirdos

[–]Agodachi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sorry your sister is trying to throw you under the bus like that. :/ It's also really frustrating when trying to have discussions, they just come in with their lame excuses like "it's InVaLiDaTiNg!!!!"

[–]Eurowoman24 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thanks I basically take it in stride now and won't ever open up that can of worms again. She has other issues.. and well I'm comfortable with my beliefs that I don't feel the need for that kind of confrontation.

[–]Eurowoman24 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

she's also basically a TRA parrot for every reply under the book so.. there's not really any point.

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ug...They're trying to murky the waters for us...I'm part of the B for LGB, but I can't imagine how it is for Lesbians right now! They have to deal with the most BS to be frank. It's like we live in the Matrix where everything is...Backwards?? Lesbian is a female who likes other females. Gay (men) is a male who likes other males. So a lesbian WON'T like a TiM nor a gay man won't like a TiF either. But not they have "ladypenis" and "mangina"?? It's losing it's meaning...It doesn't make sense...

I hate how as a "bisexual" I'm expected to like trans people, when I don't. That's the only reason why I'm slightly okay with the term pansexual (even though it's a pretentious term for bisexual people they're just bisexual people) to denote that person likes trans.

[–]Eurowoman24 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah they really are, it's wild seeing people you know fall for this crap and argue confidently what's basically a more subdued woke form conversion therapy. To be honest I remember hearing about a study where bisexuals were the most willing to date trans people out of all other sexualities so I did wonder why bisexuals were apparently more open to it. If it had anything to do with no natural aversion to the other sex in terms of attraction etc.. I agree with you about the term pansexual but hey at least you can use that as a cop-out if you're ever pressured perhaps?

[–]OrangeFirefly 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Surely the fact that you went through it - transitioned and detransitioned - gives you a lot of authority on the subject?

I think it will be detransitioners speaking out that will turn this tide.

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I tried haha. But...When we talked I felt that she seemed a bit offended so I didn't continue. My friend has also gone through the "boy" phase, but she never specified if she tried transitioning or not.

[–]Tikiri 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My siblings are total SJWs, so neither has peaked (though the elder one seems a bit more reasonable so there may be hope). My parents, though staunch Dems, are either clueless/couldn’t care less (father) or horrified (by my constantly informing her of what’s going on) but doesn’t think it’s that serious.

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh dang, yikes. My siblings are the EXACT opposite of SJWs...They're rather conservative, same with my parents because they're religious.

[–]jelliknight 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're in the best position to discuss/argue against it. Having personal experience, they can't leap to calling you a bigot. I have been peaked by discussion with a family member, and have peaked several other people. The keys points that I've found get people are:

  1. It's sexist. No matter how you slice it. Either they have a medical condition where they feel like the need the body parts of the opposite sex, and then adopt the fashion, behavior, name, mannerisms etc to "match", or vice versa. You rarely see Bruce get himself a pair of big ol tits and go on being Bruce in every other way. Any connection between the sex of the body and behavour/feeling/traits/fashion etc etc is inescapably sexism.

  2. The damage to women. Men can in my state sign a stat dec and be legally a woman, no physical alteration required. Women lose the right to be searched by a police officer of the same sex, the right to be housed in a prison for their sex (housing males and females together is a war crime under the geneva convention), the right to request a female doctor, the right to have a female person present if a male doctor is required, and so on.

[–]PeakingPeachEater[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I tried to say something, but she seemed a bit offended so I let it go for that time. She also went through a "boy phase" but never specificed if she tried transitioning or not.

It really is sexist, I'm pissed that I think it was the miss world pageant that a TiM won that....a MAN with plastic surgery basically won the WOMEN'S beauty pageant. Beauty pageants are stupid anyways but just wow lol.

[–]Aloudmeow 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For whatever reason, all my closest friends are men. Most were unaware of the issue and how powerful the trans movement is, but as soon as I filled them in, they were shocked and supported my gender critical perspective. One even started lurking here and then did further research on the web.