all 11 comments

[–]BEB 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

While I totally agree that Woke has gone way too far, and the alt-Left, especially on women's issues, is nuts, and sometimes dangerous, it wasn't too long ago when it was Republicans who were the threat to free speech.

For instance, after 9/11, even mild criticism of George W. What's His Last Name Again, or the attacks on Afghanistan or Iraq, could get you fired. An anti-war bumper sticker could get you followed and threatened. I speak from experience.

The American First Amendment right to free speech is a blessing; don't let either side take it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry that happened to you, but millions of people in large cities and small towns all over the US actively protested the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 (and later) and were not fired, followed or threatened for doing so:

Being vocally opposed to the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld admin's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was hardly a fringe position back then. Millions of people who were very much in the mainstream loudly, openly objected to the invasion of Iraq and were not penalized for doing so:

Nearly every mainline Christian denominational body in the United States, including the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops and the major Protestant churches, publicly opposed the war...Many religious leaders and members of local congregations in the United States participated in antiwar activities. Church-based opposition to war was broader in the case of Iraq than in any previous conflict in modern history. Faith-based activists were major players in the principal U.S. coalitions against the war, United for Peace and Justice and Win Without War. Traditional religious peace groups—including the Catholic pacifist organization Pax Christi and groups within the Friends, Mennonite, and Brethren communities—played a leadership role in raising awareness and organizing antiwar opposition. The campaign against the invasion of Iraq was the largest, most intensive mobilization of antiwar sentiment in history...

Dubya Bush and his henchmen Cheney and Rumsfeld and henchwoman Rice were subjected to a wide range of public criticism - from mild to scathing - and whilst there was a lot of yelling about this from right wingers on talk radio, in the press and online, there was no government crackdown on the free speech of Americans who spoke out against the admin.

Amongst a wide spectrum of Americans, Dubya and his admin were savagely ridiculed by all sorts - from young school children to wildly popular TV comedians with top-rated shows. Dubya in particular was widely seen as "god's gift to comedy." Stephen Colbert built his career, and Jon Stewart bolstered his, around ridiculing, satirizing and otherwise expressing criticism of Bush.

Same goes for filmmaker Michael Moore, who had huge critical and commercial success with his 2004 documentary, "Farenheit 9/11," a movie about Bush that was scathingly critical of him, his invasion of Iraq and his presidency generally. The film earned Moore a Palme d'Or at Cannes, and the People's Choice Award for Favorite Motion Picture of the year. For playing their parts so badly, Bush, Rumsfeld and Condoleeza Rice received Golden Raspberry Awards or Razzies for the worst perfomances of the year in a film. Britney Spears got one too for speaking in support of Bush in the movie.

The mainstream press, general public and kids alike back then collected and traded "Bushisms" - the many moronic and often ungrammatical statements Dubya was reported to have made. Such as "The problem with the French is they don't have a word for entrepreneur" and "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" These were documented in best-selling books and printed on popular packs of trading cards sold on Amazon and stores like Urban Outfitters and Barnes & Noble.

[–]BEB 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree completely with everything you typed - I remember it all too well - it was a nightmare.

However, I was active in the antiwar movement from the time we started bombing Afghanistan, and for my troubles I, a middle-aged, middle-class woman with no criminal record, who'd never demonstrated for anything before except the Equal Rights Amendment, was put on an airport special screening list.

After the umpteenth time I was pulled aside at the airport for special screening, I asked the screeners and they told me that I was on the list. That to me implies that there was a government list and that other people who opposed the wars were on it, and who knows who else. That government would be the Cheney shadow presidency, so GOP.

Also, I lived/worked in Wokeville back then, and even in parts of Wokeville, opposing the wars could get you talked to by your boss. And followed, and threatened by randoms. As I said, it happened to me. I also got surrounded by Bush supporters at a protest, who threatened to beat me up. All I was doing was carrying an antiwar sign. That's not government interference, but GOP supporters could be violent and dangerous. Like Antifa.

The police would routinely threaten antiwar protestors, even though we were standing where we were supposed to be standing, and many of the protests I attended were in a business area of the city so many of the protestors were well-dressed professionals on their lunch hour, not the hippy, dread-locked types.

At one, extremely peaceful antiwar rally I attended, tanks showed up. They claimed they were lost. Yeah, right. Tanks lost in a major US city. Then the tanks rounded the block and came back.

So, yeah, I think the GOP has its own problems with free speech. And as someone who has traveled a lot for an American, and seen how freedom of speech is regulated or non-existent in many other countries, the First Amendment to me, is sacred.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, thank you for your interesting and informative post. I lurked on r/GenderCritical and just recognized your username - I am an admirer of yours. So glad that there are women like you fighting for our rights, thanks again!

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Either way we lose when we side with those that curtail freedom of speech.

[–]MezozoicGay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

who were

They still are. It is just other side seems to be more agressive in this way nowaydas.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's not that the GOP has become less of a threat to free speech, it's just that some of the narrative, especially the "Intellectual Dark Web" (who seem to be the cool kids at the moment) has switched to castigating the Left for what the Right used to do routinely.

Of course, the Antifa goons, cancel culture, and Trans Demand Activists kind of make the Right's case in terms of their forceful shutting down of anyone who even voices a peep of criticism.

But IMO - and free speech is one of my pet issues - it's all for show because both sides' extremes wings are for free speech when it benefits them.

[–]purrfect 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He's right. In my country, it was parties on the right, that were historically against free speech, so seeing this authoritarian pro censorship move on the (democratic) Left is very disheartening and scary.

[–]EllaRoxy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just posted something similar about this on ovarit. Since the lock down I have lost a friend of 20 years over politics. All of my progressive friends sound like this 100% yet none of my straight female friends were eager to date any transmen. It's a level of hypocrisy I can't even wrap my mind around. No differing opinions, must obey, or you are a bigot, terf, etc...sad really.

[–]cybitch 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem with banning "hate speech" is that the term is subjective. AFAIK, US laws already make it illegal to encourage violent behavior against anyone. So there should be no need for further censorship as far as public safety is concerned. In the end, these buzzword terms of "hate speech" and "bigotry" will be used as political tools. You can see how it's done already by watching cancel culture - 20 year old social media postings being dug up and interpreted in the least charitable manner possible, with the people doing the interpreting not even bothering to pretend they are actually concerned with anything other than the endorphin rush they get from "calling them out". It's a power trip. Now imagine this, but with actual power involved. That's what makes the left more dangerous than the right, currently.

This might've been different in the past, but right now it's obvious who the anti-science people are, and currently they control science along with the media as well. Women who are still more afraid of the right are delusional, no amount of misogyny makes a difference if there's no power to exert it. The real misogynists and sociopaths have long since switched sides. To them it makes no difference what kind of ideological BS to spew, they only care about the social rewards they get from spewing it.