My last straw for being a progressive trans-supportive gay man

submitted by [deleted] from (self.GenderCritical)

I understand that I am a guest in this subreddit due to being a man. I just hope that what I write resonates with anyone here. I've lost most of my friends (and my boyfriend) ever since coming out as a gay man who is against the trans movement, and it would be nice to talk to people who feel similarly about this.

I'm a milennial gay man. Being a gay man these days means that there's a ton of overlap with the transgender community, so you learn things about them. There's a lot of things that come with being transgender that the community doesn't like to talk about. SRS not really doing anything and usually causing more suicides, mental instability due to hormones, you already know this. But there's one thing that the trans community really hates to talk about that fully made me against the transgender movement. My apologies if this is the wrong sub, I'm new to saidit. (I'm usually on voat ever since leaving reddit and there's not many LGB groups there)

When you go on HRT, there's actual potential that your sexuality will change. Whether this is due to hormone treatment or their own delusions is up for debate. I've read posts on reddit from trans individuals who have documented this - TiFs who used to be straight women become now 'straight men', and my personal favorite, TiMs who used to be gay men turn into 'gay women', all thanks to estrogen.

So in essence, since TiMs are men, gay men who take these experimental hormones turn into straight men.

Literal. Conversion. Therapy.

There needs to be a bigger conversation about this. The same thing is happening to my ex, he used to be a gay man but ever since transition, they now identify as a lesbian. We don't talk anymore, obviously.

This is beyond fucked.

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[–]MarkTwainiac 48 insightful - 1 fun48 insightful - 0 fun49 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The sexologists who've studied TIMs and TIFs closely say that whilst some report of a change in sexual orientation after "transition," these are merely reports and don't necessarily correspond with reality.

What's more, these reports of a change in sexual orientation are much more common amongst straight men and straight women who get on the trans train than amongst gay men who do so.

Finally, the research has not shown that these reported changes are caused by taking cross-sex hormones, androgen blockers, getting surgeries or any other trans-related treatment or events (like changing documents, going public with the new gender identity, changing type of clothing worn, etc).

We investigated changes in self-reported sexual orientation and the relation to important life events in a large cohort of transsexual persons in Germany by means of qualitative and quantitative data. We could show that self-reported changes in sexual orientation are frequent in transsexual persons especially in originally gynephilic (straight) MtF as well as androphilic (straight) FtM. It was hypothesized before that change of sexual orientation might be influenced by hormonal therapy or SRS.

But these researchers found that

reported changes of sexual orientation are not particularly associated with any transition event. Thus our data challenge the view that either hormonal therapy or SRS or any other event has a direct influence on self-reported sexual orientation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192544/

Ray Blanchard calls the reported change in sexual orientation that some TIMs claim to experience "pseudobisexuality."

The Oxford dictionary definition of "pseudo" is: "(adjective) not genuine; spurious or sham."

The Oxford Thesaurus says the synonyms for "pseudo" are "bogus, sham, phony, imitation, artificial, mock, ersatz, quasi-, fake, feigned, pretended, false, faux, spurious, counterfeit, fraudulent, deceptive, misleading, assumed, contrived, affected, insincere; informal pretend, put-on, fakey; and British informal cod."

TL;DR version: people who base their entire identity on denying reality, pretending to be what they are not and bullshitting aren't the most trustworthy group, so their every utterance shouldn't be taken as the gospel truth. And guys of the lady dick variety are especially likely to tell cock and bull stories - IRL and on anonymous social media like reddit.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you for the info, I will update the body text accordingly. I must say, even though this whole topic is insane, these research documents are very fascinating to read.

[–]MarkTwainiac 35 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 0 fun36 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No don't update the text! Your post made it very clear what these guys are claiming.

BTW, transgenderism is indeed functioning as a gay conversion therapy. A lot of people - including clinicians in trans health care and therapy - have pointed it out. Experts in the UK have said the NHS youth gender clinic there is in the business of, in effect "transing away the gay" and expressed fear that "in another generation or two there will be no gay people left."

I'll post some other links.

[–][deleted] 34 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 0 fun35 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They almost got me, too. Bunch of trans pedos groomed me in 2016 into believing that I was a girl so that I could be straight, instead of getting over my internalized homophobia. I finally got out of the cult earlier this year and am content with my gay maleness. I’m trying to keep my views on transgenderism moderate but I feel like the grooming has taken its toll on how I feel.

[–]MarkTwainiac 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Good for you. Glad you got out. There are many other gay men who share your views. Many decent older guys among them. I suggest follow ing the LGB Alliance in the UK and Fred Sargeant from the USA on Twitter.

Best of luck, and take care!

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Much appreciated. o7

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That article state confusion--they are/were confused. NO shit sherlock.

[–]MarkTwainiac 43 insightful - 1 fun43 insightful - 0 fun44 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Here's Susie Green, CEO of the UK charity Mermaids talking about knowing that her son Jack was probably gay before he was two, and how this was unacceptable to her homophobic husband.

Susie's actions show she is a major homophobe herself. She socially transitioned Jack into Jackie as a little kid, took him to the US to get put on puberty blockers when he was 12, then flew him to Thailand when he was 15 so he could get his balls cut off and his penis reconfigured on his 16th birthday. She later went on to become head of Mermaids, which promotes medical transition for kids likely to be gay, despite the fact that the means used - puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgeries - will cause these children to be sterile; to have diminished libido and sexual function, or none at all; to be at risk for a number of serious health problems like brittle bones, blood clots, heart attacks, stroke and diabetes; and to suffer a drop in IQ of 8-9 points.

https://youtu.be/2ZiVPh12RQY

[–]Aloudmeow 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OMG that sounds like the plot of a dystopian novel! How nightmarish fo that child that it’s true!

[–]IridescentAnaconda 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, I've read about her before. Utterly despicable. Jack had every chance of growing up to be a reasonably well-adjusted gay man, before his mother intervened with hormones and surgery and ruined his life permanently.

[–]Delia 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Had a chance with a different mother and father

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More on Susie G: https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/07/03/mermaids-leading-children-up-the-trans-path/

[–]Delia 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

.. and people listen to this woman.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How can you even tell whether a child is gay or straight at that age? Isn't that just another form of sexualizing children?

[–]CJLez 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You can't tell that a kid is gay or straight at that age. Given the ability to express themselves freely all children will have a mixture of what society views as feminine and masculine hobbies and mannerisms.

However, some people are so deeply homophobic that they view anything is even slightly effeminate to mean that a boy is gay. Here is a mother who, in 2013, murdered her 4 year old son because she thought he was gay. Here is a story from 2010 about a 17 month old boy beaten to death by his mother's boyfriend for "acting like a girl." Here is another from 2005 about a 3 year old beaten to death by his father because he thought he was gay. There are more stories like this as well, these are just the first few I found.

[–]Cass 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But how is it more acceptable to be trans than to be gay? And how can you tell someone is gay when they are 2? I can't believe what I'm reading.

[–]thatradicallesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of homophobic parents would prefer to have what they perceive to be a "straight daughter" rather than a gay son (and vice versa for lesbian daughter vs. "straight son"), no matter how hormonally/medically dangerous this could end up being for their child.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In many countries or societies homosexual kids are just killed, especially gay men, as lesbian women often forcibelly put into marriage to make kids (not everywhere, I still remember asian "it is duty of mother to remove dishonour of family by killing her lesbian daughter"). In many countries it is even allowed by the law.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's just sick. Imagine how many deranged parents would push their children into this.

[–]MarkTwainiac 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

BBC report from June 2020 shows that at the NHS gender clinic at the Tavistock many kids are being brought in by parents who would prefer they be trans rather than gay:

https://youtu.be/zTRnrp9pXHY

[–]Matroskin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's so bizarre. There's much more stigma against trans than gay, so why do the parents prefer trans? Is it some specific religion thing, where the religion condemns gays but doesn't mention trans?

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, that's part of it, that generally peoples' religions are against homosexuality but not transgender (because that's a social construction anyway) and conservative people would rather have the appearance of heterosexuality than a scenario that looks clearly gay. Hence why countries like Iran and Pakistan want to trans homosexual men.

[–]MarkTwainiac 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

In 2017, Eric Vilain, Chief of Medical Genetics at UCLA, was interviewed on camera about the trend to transition kids with childhood gender dysphoria and asked: ""I'm actually wondering what are we trying to accomplish here? Are we trying to reduce the number of gay & lesbian adults?" https://youtu.be/-wjObOeXZhA

[–]yousaythosethings 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is crazy because this happened to Gigi Gorgeous, an OG YouTuber who came out as a gay male who went by Gregory Gorgeous. Years later he came out as transgender and began using the name Gigi Gorgeous. Despite the transition of appearance he definitely still came across as a homosexual male in behavior, mannerisms, and voice. But then lo and behold he came out again as a "lesbian" and married a woman, Nats Getty, heiress of the billionaire petroleum tycoon Getty family. I think most of us thought this was just for money because how can someone go through such an identity crisis and he still acted and sounded like a gay male. I believe Nats Getty identifies as a lesbian but Gigi, as far as I understand it, still has his penis. He obvious is not a lesbian as he was exclusively male attracted before, but it is quite possible that his transition resulted in him being attracted to women. It still is hard to believe that a lesbian would be attracted to Gigi though because he will never be able to shake the gay male vibes.

Magdalen Berns did a video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6c5ZyJ4V0w&vl=en-US

Edit: NVM, just watched this video of Gigi Gorgeous and Nats Getty and it looked like torture for Gigi to give the most basic peck of a kiss to Nats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb_QyOsoHv8 It's about the $$$ after all.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, Greedy Gorging - oops I mean Gigi Gorgeous - seems to have been motivated to supposedly switch sexual orientation mainly by the hundreds of millions of bucks that the androgynous/masc Nats Getty has at her disposal. For superficial narcissistic consumerists like Greedy Golddigger the TIM gorgon, private jets, 5 star hotels and all the tacky but pricey Gucci that money can buy seem to be the ultimate aphrodisiacs.

I doubt Greedy and Nats spend much or any time getting it on. Cuz Nats is not a well person in any respect. Nats has had lifelong serious mental health issues and has been dealing with drug addiction, alcoholism, low/zero self-esteem, self-loathing/hatred, eating disorders and other forms of self-harm since early adolescence.

Speaking about drugs and alcohol addiction, Nats Getty (LGBT activist) revealed that when she met Gigi Gorgeous (transgender activist), she was at her second lowest point in her life. Nats had to go to rehab when she was really, really young. And when she met Gigi, she was at another terrible time of her life...

https://dankanator.com/33512/gigi-gorgeous-opens-up-about-wife-dark-past/

Nats' having tons of issues is not surprising given the familial history of the Gettys.

https://people.com/celebrity/shocking-getty-family-scandals/?slide=2312444#2312444

Nothing seems legit about this couple:

https://youtu.be/CMDJ5Oy9KTg

Also, it's quite evident from their wedding photos which one is the male and which one is the female from their respective heights and body sizes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/20/fashion/weddings/gigi-gorgeous-nats-getty-wedding.html

Note that according to her mother, Nats had never had a GF or other love relationship before meeting Greedy.

[–]SameOldBS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nats Getty looks like a hostage with Stockholm syndrome.

[–]Sittingonarainbow 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Both Saidit and Ruqqus have relatively active lgbdropthet forums, if you would like to find other gay men.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Political-Organization/Transgenderism-is-Misogyny-and-Homophobia-1948568582092556/

[–]our_team_is_winning 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

<The same thing is happening to my ex, he used to be a gay man but ever since transition, they now identify as a lesbian. >

THEY! A gay man "becomes" a lesbian woman with a plural pronoun. Wake me up from this nightmare. Wait, I do NOT want to be "woke"! Feel so sad for OP. Some people are sexually attracted to others of their same sex. Fact and not a problem (or shouldn't be a problem) for anyone. WHY did Trans ever enter into it?

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/08/13/woke-misogyny-and-homophobia-a-gay-critique-of-trans-ideology/

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/06/24/the-new-gay-conversion-therapy/

[–]Criticallacitirc 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LGBDropTheT is here on Saidit as a resource too.

[–]Eurowoman24 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I believe it. Remember a few TiFs showing up on my potential matches on tinder a while back (I checked the box looking for straight men).

[–]Delia 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are parents transitioning kids of both sexes. They do not want a gay or lesbian child.

[–]slushpilot 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not sure how old your boyfriend is since you say "millennial", or how long you've been together, but is it possible he wasn't just gay to start with, and maybe recently realized he's bisexual? It's a weird way to go about it, but do you think he might be using this transition as his way out of the relationship, to allow himself to feel comfortable saying that he's actually attracted to women? (i.e. Rather be seen as trans than a boring straight to get sympathy, which is kind of fucked up if you ask me.)

[–]Tovasshi 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I had a male trans friend go from being into women to being into men.

They explained they think it was because their initial attraction to women wasn't genuine attraction to them, but they had what they wanted for themselves. It was a kind of envy was their explanation.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sounds like gay autogynephilia and what Blanchard calls pseudobisexuality.

As with all AGPs, your friend's primary sexual attraction is probably to himself as the imaginary female he fancies himself to be in his heart of hearts. His supposed attraction to women previously was entirely/largely based on envy and covetousness. Now he's supposedly attracted to men because he fantasizes/believes that if a man finds him in his female persona/presentation convincing and attractive enough to fuck, it will validate that he is a "real woman."

These guys don't really want lovers or partners. They want mirrors - and the most flattering mirrors at that.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do not agree completely on that. I was drinking the koolaid as a lesbian, and I was involved a few years ago in the intial surge and I spent time with these people in larger numbers. They all, every single male identified trans stated THEIR THERAPISTS TOLD THEM to try and date males too, here in the US, in a larger city. Now, I have a psych education as well as other degrees. I am not saying all therapists, but I am stating that every TiM I spoke with, which was a large number, had all made these comments. I also did not talk to one trans who was not in love with their female theraspist either, smh.

Sexuality is biological, and it has to do with genes, pheromones, and mate selection based on genetic makeup, and the use of the olfactory system. REAL lesbians have been studied, and it is fact peer reviewed, that we have distinct differences in our human leukocyte antigen system.

Here. Have a click.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5006172/

[–]fijupanda 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Come on over to https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, this sound terrifying. If this is true and common, and it's documented or becomes documented, how many homophobic countries are going to start becoming "leaders in the TRANS RiGhtS movement?" I'm guessing most of them, and westerners will mark it as progressive instead of conversion theory with a woke twist. How many parents who don't want a gay kid will force their kid onto hormones to try to change their sexuality? How many are doing it already? This is horrifying.

[–]Maeven 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not all alone in this. There are other gay men with similar views to yours. There are some here on /s/LGBDropTheT and I even see some calling themselves gender critical now. I am following some on Twitter.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with you totally. I'm also really afraid for young kids who are brainwashed/pressured into taking medications that could potentially debilitate them for life. It's incredible how much corporate support there is for the whole trans-activism scheme, which is why I don't believe the arguments that "transphobia and prejudice about gay people are the same thing!". I don't recall as much concentrated effort or emphasis by the media or government being pushed towards having the public accept gays/lesbians over the past few decades, nor do I remember gay adults trying to groom younger kids into their orientation. For example, there are obvious efforts in Reddit and other social media platforms to groom children into the whole trans lifestyle.

[–]crimsondavison 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That actually would make some sense since being gay has some part in hormone levels if I remember correctly?

[–]Quixoticfutz 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You do not. Hormonal treatment has already been tested in conversion therapy and failed numerous times. Do you honestly think the very conservative folks in charge of conversion therapies wouldn't remember to try hormonal treatment?

They already think we're failed women/men, it's the precursor to the Iran method of simply transing homosexuals.

[–]ghostraider 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This person is probably referring to articles talking about hormone exposure on the womb (i.e. while you are actually being developed), which is also not the single reason as far as we know today. A lot of people hear "development" and think about puberty, when actually it happens in the womb.

[–]marmorsymphata 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are welcome here, but FYI you might enjoy /s/LGBDropTheT :)