Can you help debunk these pro-rape porn in animation, drawings and literature arguments? And what are the arguments in defense of making the production and the watching/reading of rape porn in animation, drawings and literature illegal?

submitted by Nohope from (self.GenderCritical)

I wanted to ask my question on r/antiporn subreddit but the mod removed my post without telling me for what reason. Can you help debunk these pro-rape porn in animation, drawings and literature arguments? And what are the arguments in defense of making the production and the watching/reading of rape porn in animation, drawings and literature illegal?

Argument 1) "if rape porn in animation, drawings and literature gets banned, the rate of rape might increase"

In this article; https://cld.fandom.com/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoons

It says the argument that rape porn in animation, drawings and literature incites and encourages rape and contributes to rape has been disputed by the claim that there is no scientific basis for that connection, and that restricting "sexual expression" in drawings, animations and literature might actually increase the rate of rape by eliminating an outlet for desires that could motivate crime.

This is exemplified in a case involving a man, from Virginia who, while arrested after viewing lolicon at a public library computer, asserted that he had quit collecting real child pornography and switched to lolicon"

That's for lolicon, what they mean is people that get off on rape porn with real people in them stop watching those things and instead get off on rape porn in animations, drawings and literature which makes them stop raping real people in reality because they get to imagine themselves raping imaginary characters instead.

What are some good counter-arguments to the "if rape porn in animation, drawings and literature gets banned, the rate of rape might increase" argument?

And also, argument 2) "you can't ban rape porn in animation, drawings, and literature on the basis that some people might get encouraged to rape people in reality by watching/reading those things because many people don't act on that urge when watching/reading rape porn and taking that rape porn away from someone that just watches/reads rape porn in animation, drawings and literature for fun but doesn't act on what they watch and read is unfair, they're not going to get encouraged to rape in reality anyway"

Can you help debunk those 2 arguments? Thank you.

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[–]zephyranthes 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Argument 1:

When Indiana Jones came out, young people rushed to become archaeologists. When the first Harry Potter movie came out, demand for white owls as pets skyrocketed. The US military sponsors war movies to attract more recruits.

Fetishists aren't born, they're made (proof: the proliferation of weird fetishes brought on by the internet). Rape porn is promotion of rape.

many people don't act on that urge

The "people" who have "that urge" are dangerous and shouldn't be trusted with managing themselves.

Argument 2:

you can't ban rape porn

I can't, because I'm not a politician. But if I were, I could and I would. Society should not be centered around the interests of "people" who watch rape porn for """fun"""; on the contrary, self-organized societies are built around common norms and values. A behavior reviled by all enfranchised members of a society should be banned by it. As rape porn serves no purpose for non-rapists, it can and should be banned and nothing of value will be lost.

unfair

Circular reasoning.

[–]firebird 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Their entire argument is based on the fact that apparently you should just accept that some people feel the urge to rape. We shouldn't accept that. If they have that urge, they should get professional help before they ever act on it. Professional help, NOT media that allows them to indulge in their fantasies.

Also: I recently read a book in which one of the characters self-harmed. At the end of the book, there was a whole list of resources to help people who might feel the urge to self-harm. Why would they do that if just reading about it would make the urge go away?

[–]crodish 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Speaking from the perspective of a creative-ish, who has dabbled in fandom before coughyaoicoughfictionalincestcough, it swings both ways. I understand both sides of the argument, but I have to go with "for", ultimately because it's still censorship if you try to stop fictional things from being created.

Yeah, it might have an impact on the real world. Does that mean all movies shouldn't have pets featured in them any more? Does every scene or violence need to come with a disclaimer? For the same reason it's not womens' faults for speaking out against trans agenda that causes transpeople to be murdered by men, it's not creatives' fault if people decide to act in real life with real consequences.

There's also people who create this type of work to begin with (myself included) as a form of self therapy or an outlet for expression and exploration. It doesn't mean we condone it, obviously.

I personally feel the real issue is when people can't separate the two. Fiction is not reality. It can be inspired by reality. It can come about as a result of wishing reality was different, and it might shape the future of reality. But it should never fall on the creator to be personally faulted. For example people who've committed real copycat crimes based on fictional murders.

I admit I'm not entirely convinced by my own stance. I've seen and read the arguments that aren't in favor (for example, many, MANY fandoms have an incest ship somewhere that undoubtedly ends up being one of the most popular ships) and argue that the creation of the material is what promotes and perpetuates the grooming behavior, etc. It's really a chicken and egg scenario for myself, personally. All I can say is that I can take accountability for myself that I'm not hurting anyone. If someone acts on their own accord based on what they read of my work, that's on them.

I welcome debate. I treat this issue like religion. It works for some, it doesn't for others, but in the end you're the only one it should matter for. Otherwise you end up like the religious people who keep actively trying to convert others because they believe they're saving others. For me, anyway.

[–]Nohope[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And just one thing, I would say it's our "fault" "trans" people get so-called "murdered" but my goal is for the "trans" to get so-called "murdered" so we're doing good things

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know, you're not really debunking those pro-porn arguments because you're on the fence and more pro-rape porn. I don't know much to debate you on this, I wonder if there are people here that can debate you on this because they may be more knowledgeable