Officially lost my best friend to gender theory

submitted by RealWomenResist from self.GenderCritical

She shared a post with the comment "read the caption". I did, and it was about 7 paragraphs of the usual gender nonsense, about how genitals do not equal gender. I would have just moved on (I know she's been a believer in basic trans stuff for a while), but then I saw the part about lesbians. How if lesbians have sex with strap ons, they should have no problem having sex with penises. And if you don't have sex with trans penis you're transphobic TERF.

As a woman who's attracted to men, I don't know what a strap on sex experience is like. But the tone was so violent, so shaming, telling women, lesbian women, what they were allowed to like or dislike in bed. So I replied to my friend (privately) that I was sorry, but I couldn't stand that part.

She went on to angrily and dismissively tell me I missed the whole point about not gendering genitals and that lesbians aren't only interested in sex with women, duh.

I told her that yes, I AM confused because I must have never known the definition of lesbian to begin with.

And that appears to be the end of that friendship. I can't respect how deep in the la la land she is, and she thinks I'm an idiot bigot. I'm pretty heartbroken and feeling very alone.

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[–]Astrid2448 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Long ago, it was the LGBT community that would defend lesbians from gross comments like that. It was the stereotypical homophobic guy thing to say and was considered a massive dick move. Now it’s back, but apparently we’re bigots for having an issue with it.

[–]Cicerosolo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your friends a loser. She did you a favour informing you she's a loser.

[–]luckystar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I recently lost a dear friend too. She has low self esteem and disabilities making it hard to get out of the house, and many of her friends are typical uwu anime profile "non binary trans woman terfs suck my girldick" types she met online that she felt the need to defend. It was very disturbing. Another good friend of mine has come out on my side though. Hang in there. I found some solidarity by going on Twitter and following other like minded feminists.

[–]EllaRoxy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am so sorry to hear this. I have lost several friends due to this and due to the current political climate. It's heart breaking but what I am coming to realize is it's for the best. They aren't going to come around at least they haven't in my experience. Regarding the penis comment, it's the same argument men have used on me over the years. Well you like having strap on sex, how about the real thing? You just need a good dicking. I hate that I have to defend who I am attracted to. It's hard enough to try and find another femme who isn't poly (no offense but I don't share well), who is into femmes and doesn't believe all of this gender nonsense. I have come to realize it's a long shot for me to find someone and that makes me terribly sad but I try and find connection in other ways. By the way you aren't an idiot bigot.

[–]Rationalmind 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ll be the person that says this- your friend is not a friend if you can’t disagree. I hope she’s sensible in other areas, but if she can’t hear out her good friend and speak with you in patience, she’s not a great person. On a lighter note, she’ll come around eventually and return to you if she is a true friend and a good person.

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cut her off. Trans cultists are toxic, ignorant and nasty people. Sorry this happened, it's happened to me a few times, too. I have no time for trans cult bullshit.

[–]threefingersam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ugh, every time I read stories like this, I'm surprised that I even have ppl in my life who are reasonable about discussing the issues with gender ideology. This is really unfortunate

[–]Killer_Danish 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your friend is in a cult. Trying to extract her with facts and logic isn't going to work. I'm sorry this happened to you, but you'll have to let her go do the rainbow dance with the other cult members until she (hopefully) eventually peaks.

[–]divingrightintowork 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's too little too late but I like to use steelmanning, like "So you're saying that Tony McDade should have gone to a men's prison if he survived?" ?

[–]fuckupaddams 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why is it women aggressively selling out other women like this? Why does your female friend care so much that lesbians should take dick? Fucking infuriating.

[–]fuckupaddams 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not GENdering GENitals. It's hilarious. Except when it's not.

[–]denverkris 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, who the fuck is she to tell lesbians who THEY must be attracted to? The word transphobe, when used by these people, has become almost as meaningless as the word lesbian.

And, as a bi woman who has been with way more women than men (and used strapons in every way possible) I can assure you, it is not the same. At all. Like not even close.

Clue: Strap-ons are not attached to a man.

Clue2: A strap-on is not a penis

Clue3: just because a woman enjoys penetration != she must enjoy a penis

[–]GenCritAllDay 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm so sorry.

I pretty much lost my best friend of 14 years to this. At first I had a live and let live mentality and she had a friend who was a TiF. I respected their pronouns and went about my business. As the years progressed and I opened my eyes to the nonsense, I saw my friend go down the rabbit hole of BS. Her Twitter is filled with the typical TRA mantras but what really got me was her use of the word N*zi. When we start misusing terms that carry a very deep and painful history to describe women who DARE to question views, especially against men, that's when I know sanity has gone out the window.

She emailed me to check in on me recently after a year of me ceasing communication. She was worried because I live in a COVID-19 hotspot but I haven't responded. Part of me really wants to tell her that I no longer feel safe communicating with her because I'm one of those pesky TRF NZIS she hates so much. She's an intelligent, blunt, gender nonconforming woman with a history of sexual abuse at the hands of men; I do not get why she's on the wrong side of the fence.

There is a part of me that feels like deep down she's questioning all of this somewhere in her mind but won't come out with it because she's scared. I know she's always felt ostracized by society due to her size, so I sense she almost feels this obligation to side with anyone who cries oppression, whether or not the claim is legitimate. A lot of her friends are socially awkward, anime obsessed, tumblr users who self-diagnose as autistic or with mental illness. She has an open heart and accepts anyone who accepts her. I've watched her get hurt in the past due to that. I feel like our relationship is strong enough where we'd be able to talk and hash out our differences or she'd eventually see the light but I am so afraid to find out her reaction that I chose the route of dropping communication with her. Even if she did accept my views, I cannot accept the flat out hatred of other women with the use of the word T*RF; I don't want to be her one exception to the rule. I'd rather remember the beautiful 14 years of friendship we had rather than having to reflect on what would most likely be a painful, final interaction between us.

[–]fuckupaddams 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She's an intelligent, blunt, gender nonconforming woman with a history of sexual abuse at the hands of men; I do not get why she's on the wrong side of the fence.

She probably thinks that this whole identifying into other genders thing is the way out of sexism. These people have it all wrong, but it's obvious they think they've cracked the code when it comes to defeating patriarchal sexism. They don't realize they're actually enforcing it, they think the TERFs are doing that.

[–]RealWomenResist[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For a while I didn't say anything because like you, i was scared of this. I started challenging my friend on these issues a couple months ago. I don't think i was harsh, I just asked questions and shared my opinion. I thought maybe being honest and open would be better than bottling it up. But it feels too late. I think you made the right move.

[–]PassionateIntensity 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is so sad. I feel the same way about agreeing to disagree on the ideology, but not when they encourage violence against other women.

[–]windrunner 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When we start misusing terms that carry a very deep and painful history to describe women who DARE to question views, especially against men, that's when I know sanity has gone out the window.

I see a lot of this shit on twitter. They have to call us names and categorize us so they can better attack us. They've equated being a terf=nazi, while still denying it isn't a slur. They have no shame about using a tragedy like the holocaust to harrass and ostracize people who don't agree with them. And in their stupid little brains they think that's perfectly normal.

[–]TeaAndCigarettes 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're in good company. Though losing a good friend to this is painful as fuck. At the end of the day...I suppose I sort of realized there wasn't much left there for us between me and my friend if my life experiences meant so little to them. It's a terrible place to be, it is NOT easy but it does pass.

[–]IAmSatan 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Homophobia is woke now. Finally they feel like they can say what they always thought.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so sorry that you lost your friendship. You never know, she might come to her senses one day and reach out to you. (But damn, she's really going to the extreme on this nonsense!)
Don't feel alone. There are so many of us who are GC, and so many who don't even know yet because they've never even considered the issue or they don't know any of the pertinent info. The truth will win out and you'll meet your undiscovered friends.
In the meantime, just know that painful life experience is oftentimes the base ingredient for wisdom. And as you move on past this rough patch, you get the hard-won gift that no-one asks for--resilience.

[–]CJLez 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I'm sorry you lost your friend. Some people peak very, very slowly and she might come around in the future.

Thank you for standing up for lesbians though. I've seen the same argument so many times that if you can use a strap-on or dildo or vibrator you can use a dick, and it is now also becomming popular to tell gay men that if they can enjoy a dick they can enjoy a FTM with a strap on.

Even leaving aside the homophobia of denying same-sex attraction this ignores the facts that a) penises feel and function nothing like sex toys, b) some lesbians who enjoy penetrative sex only enjoy it with sex toys that look deliberatly nothing like penises and get turned off by the ones that do, c) some lesbians don't enjoy sex toys at all and d) some lesbians don't enjoy penetration at all.

[–]powpowpowpow 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Its very dismissive to say that a strap on is the same as a penis. They talk about not reducing people to their genitals but they are reducing men to a dick when they say a strap on is equivalent to it because it has the same shape more or less.

Sex comes in a package, you don't have sex with a woman just bc she has a vagina, its the whole package, who she is, if you have chemestry with her, if you feel comfortable with her... and the same goes when you want to have sex with a man.

They clearly have little to no grasp on how humans work and how attraction works and now want to impose on us their distorted views on it.

[–]GConly 32 insightful - 4 fun32 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Someone on Twitter decided to come out with that 'lesbians can be sexually attracted to/have sex with men' bullshit. Was told snippily not to define how lesbians define their sexuality.

I asked what word we were now using for females only interested in females.

Was then told they didn't really exist because those women were attracted to female gender identity not female bodies/genitals....

So there you have it. Lesbians aren't real and the word defining them is no longer allowed in the new-speak :/

[–]RealWomenResist[S] 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I cannot believe after decades of fighting for gay and lesbian rights this is suddenly happening!! In such a gaslit, under the table way. By people who just 5-10 years ago were all in the fight for gay rights. I wonder how many people, even in the liberal community, actually know this is going on and agree.

[–]windrunner 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This shit boils my blood to another level. I can't even be calm when I read shit like this. The worst part is that they're spreading this bullshit and stupid people are falling for it.

[–]LasagnaRossa 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It's always the same tale, this time in woke flavor

[–]AugustiJade 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How the hell did we end up here?? From support for gay marriage to homophobic left in just a few years...

[–]lefterfield 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ugh. I'm really sorry that you've lost your friend, but that's such a disgusting argument. How dare someone decide what other people are supposed to like sexually or define their sexuality for them? I wouldn't have been able to stay silent either.

[–]SameOldBS 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So sorry. I honestly believe it's a cult. It's very unlikely you'll get through to her until the cognitive dissonance makes her ready to actually question some of the crap she believes. Must hurt like hell though for you.

[–]Doobeedoo661 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Friendships which dissolve due to a difference of opinion aren’t really worth much. People can sustain all kinds of partnerships despite their opposing ideologies. Most of my friends are meat eaters and no matter how often I call them despicable murderers during lunch, they just smile and tell me I have spinach on my teeth. Don’t despair, this will pass. 💙

[–]Criticalofgender 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sorry that you did finish your friendship. If it helps you to feel less alone, I've also been in huge arguments with friends about the trans and gender ideology. I know how shitty it feels to feel like you aren't been listened by those who are supposed to be your friends and that they don't even try listening to your point of view, which is as important as anyone's.

I hope that you understand that you deserve people that are able to understand and/or speak about political issues in a constructive way. I'm sending you a huge hug.

[–]Feather 41 insightful - 2 fun41 insightful - 1 fun42 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm so sorry. Losing a beloved friend is definitely heartbreaking.

Even if you know you're right, that doesn't make it hurt less. It can even make it more confusing. Relationships that end based on something that doesn't make sense to the point where your ex (including ex-friends) was delusional... it's hard to ever feel a sense of closure about that.

You're less alone than she is. She's bought into a fake ideology and her friends in that ideology are fake, just the way friends in a cult are fake; if you leave the cult the relationships are over. There are no friendships in cults. The only friend is the ideology.

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this pain though.

[–]SameOldBS 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, the cult where everyone is ready to denounce everyone else. What a hellhole that must be.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everyone's got a gun to the other's head. I always think of this article when people point out that fear: https://www.autostraddle.com/kin-aesthetics-excommunicate-me-from-the-church-of-social-justice-386640/