all 19 comments

[–]fuckingsealions 26 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

A commenter:

It's against the law not to disclose in places like the UK. In fact, it's considered rape. One way living in the good ol' US of A is better lol.

And we're the hateful ones.

[–]GConly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was a lesbian claiming to be a teen boy in the UK that got put in prison for this. I think a large part of why she was incarcerated was that the victims were underage.

[–]moody_ape 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

More than anything else, I want to be treated the same as cis women.

hmmmkay... 'cause being treated as a cis woman in hook up culture is really great, right? i wonder if it's at least better than being treated as a TIM - which i don't doubt. OP makes it seem like it only applies to post-op TIMs, and considering the fear of being a victim of hate crime, i think i can understand why they would want to be stealthy. but i still think it's best to be honest because people have the right to choose if they actually want to be with you. i've had a sexual partner who ommited important information from me (nothing related to trans though) because he knew i wouldn't have agreed to have sex with him if i knew the truth. he was stealthy and it made me feel violated when i found out the truth. it was horrible. i think that they can talk to the person and check their attitude towards trans people before deciding to have sex with them. what if the person notices that they're trans during sex? a hate crime could happen anyway and it would be even worse because the other person would feel entitled to react for being deceived. as a woman who has been rejected for not waxing/shaving, i've had friends telling me to conceal this information and just let things happen. but i don't want to risk being naked and vulnerable to see if the guy has a problem with my body hair. it makes no sense and sounds like a humiliating experience.

[–]Shesstealthy 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Treated like a cis woman... so roofied, strangled, gang-raped at worst, ghosted or stalked... strangely I am sure that if a TW was choked to death it wouldn't be reported as "sex game gone wrong btw she was slutty", more likely as a "hate crime".

[–]Terfenclaw 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sexual orientation is a major part of a person's identity and this is so incredibly violating. But clearly, only trans identities are the ones that deserve to be affirmed.

[–]112223sps 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I have a hard time believing their partners don't know something is up. Like come on. They're probably just using them, but then the TIMs think they're sooo valid

[–]moody_ape 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

or maybe they are having sex out of politeness and/or because they don't want to be accused of transphobia. this seems specially believable if OP is 'transbian' (it's not clear from the original post). it's common for women to do that. we get scared of possible violence due to rejection, we don't know how to get out of the situation, we feel sorry for the other person, etc. so we end up having sex even though we don't want to.

[–]anfd 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

This is tricky. It reminds me of this piece of news from 2010:

A Palestinian man has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew.

Sabbar Kashur, 30, was sentenced to 18 months in prison on Monday after the court ruled that he was guilty of rape by deception. According to the complaint filed by the woman with the Jerusalem district court, the two met in downtown Jerusalem in September 2008 where Kashur, an Arab from East Jerusalem, introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship. The two then had consensual sex in a nearby building before Kashur left.

When she later found out that he was not Jewish but an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault.

Is this guy's sentence ok? I don't think it is, and I would say no trans person should be sentenced (in a court of law) either for pulling a stunt like this. It wouldn't be like not telling about having an STD or something.

It's another matter whether it's good or sensible behaviour one should engage in (I don't think so), but should it be illegal..? I would say no.

[–]Realwoman 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think if you withhold information that will lead to the other person not consenting, you're taking away their consent and sex without consent is rape.

[–]Eurowoman24 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean I'm inclined to think it maybe should be? when I see them talk about this kind of crap I can't help but think of friends who though are open-minded are against this for themselves for religious purposes. Even those for who religion comes into play if someone isn't into that and figures out the person tried to trick them pre-sex I'd consider that assault. tbh got much more respect for trans folk who disclose this, not disclosing it feels like men who don't disclose HIV, lie about wanting anything serious just to bang.. it just feels gross

[–]Eurowoman24 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

as for the example you mentioned.. it seems extreme but in some religions I'm pretty sure some people are looking to exclusively persue something with someone of the same faith and if they are tricked like that they can be seen/see themselves as dirty/used by their communities.

[–]PassionateIntensity 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the case of sex, I definitely think they should be. I fail to see how this isn't criminal:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2973791/carlos-delacruz-falkirk-penis-sex-attack-court/

[–]GenCritAllDay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So they don't disclose and think that when actual intercourse takes place the other person won't notice? The other person would have to be very inexperienced and daft to not realize they're not dealing with a real vagina if the TiM is post-op.

Aside from it being rape by deception, I can't understand the morality behind it. "I'm going to form a trusted and loving bond with this person but not tell them something very important about my life that also affects them." I couldn't think about doing that to someone but then again I'm not a narcissist like a TiM.