Men's Health magazine. How to choke a woman. I don't want to live on this planet.

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[–]Doobeedoo661 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I know you didn’t reply to my post but you raise interesting points, namely peer pressure, brainwashing etc. My issue is, if as a society we keep on blaming all the outward temptations and influences, doesn’t this play right into the notion of infantilisation of women? We must protect and guide women as they’re incapable of making good choices for themselves, that’s my interpretation when we blame everything but individual responsibility.

I’m simply not buying spitting, choking and slapping has become normalised. I’m more inclined to believe these girls and boys have ferocious personality flaws that have been nurtured by neglect and likely substance abuse. It should be instinctive that you fight your way out of these kinds of abuse - not negotiate your limits with your partner. I can’t think of any other species that would surrender to this sort of treatment outside of a cage or laboratory.

We as women have access to so many positive role models now days, willingly subjecting yourself to strangulation, slapping and so on is a personal choice. Let’s not call these women victims, there’s real victims out there that truly have no choice.

[–]slushpilot 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's one thing to see porn & articles like this as an adult once you've had the chance to grow up and experience some normal relationships. You can roll your eyes and brush it off easily.

It's another thing to see it at 13 or whatever, and see it everywhere before you can put any of it in context with your own experience & realize that it's not actually normal.

You can call it "infantilizing" and talk about personal responsibility, but I'd bet the worst impact of this stuff is actually on children who are just figuring things out. Even if they're not abused or have other problems, girls can be lonely and say they enjoy the things they believe are expected of them.

[–]Doobeedoo661 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I anticipated the prepubescent aspect. This is where parents should step up to the plate, where a lot of the blame should probably be laid. I guess it’s survival of the fittest in the end, cause I can’t see the world changing fast enough to ensure everyone’s safety in which porn is no longer readily available. Everyone gets lonely, but to seek out companionship with abusers is a whole level of defective behaviour way beyond my pay grade.

[–]our_team_is_winning[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Everyone gets lonely, but to seek out companionship with abusers is a whole level of defective behaviour way beyond my pay grade.

Playing devil's advocate: Are there women who make these weird choices? Yes. In the mid 80s I had a male friend who told me about a girl who tried to become his girlfriend. Her sales pitch was to tell him she'd had past men beat her and abuse her, claiming she could take anything he could dish out. He was NOT an abuser and was very disturbed by her offer. He told me about it because it freaked him out. But what had happened to that girl in the past to make her like that? I'd guess a large % of adult women had something bad happen in the past so that now they seek out abuse because it's familiar.

[–]Doobeedoo661 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Speechless.

[–]OrneryStruggle 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's disgusting that you're saying something like this on a feminist forum. Preteens very rarely knowingly "seek out" companionship with abusers. You don't know someone is an abuser by looking at them. Jesus what a disgusting thing to say.

[–]crazyangryfemale 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you!! There’s nothing for someone like this on a feminist-based forum.

[–]OrneryStruggle 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Go ahead and blame all the people who for decades have been eating breads, cereals and low fat yogurts for now having weight and hormone issues because the government, scientists, and society at large lied about what healthy food was for half a century.

Or maybe don't and realize that people don't just come out of the womb knowing everything there is to know and equipped with the tools to stand up to society, culture, and larger/stronger human beings (aka the boys/men choking these girls/women, who might get hurt even worse if they fight back).

[–]vitunrotta 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’m simply not buying spitting, choking and slapping has become normalised

There are numerous pretty alarming things you said but I'm just going to reply to this one (for my sanity's sake). Go on any porn site. Any. And there are plenty. Browse the main pages for some time and then tell me what you have witnessed. You can also visit sites meant for young adults and women that talk about "rough" sex, slapping, choking etc. as if it's something totally normal now - something we all immensely enjoy. Also, a good book for you to read regarding this subject would be Gail Dines' Pornland. That should be a proper eye-opener, if the above mentioned suggestions fail.

Finally, I must say that I certainly am not for "infantilizing" women - actually far from it. In this context I spoke of young(er) women who are still trying to figure out what sex and sexuality is (at large and for them personally). I 100% believe it's fair to say it is not them we should blame on this - rather, the multi-billion business that pushes violent porn (which many young people falsely conflate with sex) at an alarming speed on the screens of kids that have barely reached their pre-teens. And come on - blaming parents! Please. Even the most alert parent will have zero actual idea what their darling little cherubs are up to on the internet. The whole notion of this being because parents have failed to "police" their kids is quite laughable, to be honest.

Others have pointed out several other things so I won't get to them, as I think we simply have an extremely differing opinion on this and bickering about it won't do anything but waste both our times.

[–]Doobeedoo661 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I appreciate you taking the time to share your views, especially if your sanity is at stake. I won’t take you up on the porn sites but the book does sound interesting, thanks for the heads up.

[–]vitunrotta 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No problem. It is quite a disturbing read though, I must say. I tend to think there are very few things I will find genuinely unsettling (on this day and age...) but that was one of them. Had to read it in short segments, heh.