How the social role of being a wife makes women depressed

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[–]WhyDoesHeDoThat[S] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

"Nobody has said to our young women who are getting married: you are entering an institution with rules that are as strict as the rules of the seminary or the rules of of the church or the rules of the military"

"the institution of marriage was not designed for women it was designed for the well-being of men and children and the person who was to oversee the well-being of men and children was the wife. There isn't a character in marriage whose job it is to make sure that wives are getting their hot lunch you know, there isn't that caring so we all say I wish I had a wife"

[–][deleted]  (48 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Girlwiththeraventat 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

    Yes this is my life and its depressing as hell. I work a full time job, have a elementary age child and I'm going to college part time. But I'm still expected to clean the house, make the food, and take full care of the child. Meanwhile my husband thinks because he works a job that pays more, that's his only responsibility.

    We have had argument after argument that I need more help around the house. Which pisses me off that it should even be considered "help". Its his house too. His excuse is men can't see the mess and it's not mens fault that women wanted to leave the house and get jobs.

    So I either keep arguing about the same shit we've been arguing about for 10 years, accept that I am responsible for everything and everyone, or divorce him. If we do ever get divorced, I won't date or remarry. Theres just nothing in it for women.

    [–][deleted] 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

    Divorce him.

    [–]Girlwiththeraventat 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

    Simple thing to say, hard thing to do.

    [–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

    True. But it’s a goal you should work towards. As am I.

    [–]Girlwiththeraventat 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

    Can I ask what made you decide on divorce?

    [–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    Like you I haven’t done it yet but it’s a goal. Honestly was planning to walk out this month( July 2020) but the pandemic and my job situation hasn’t worked out so well. So kind of stuck. I’m probably losing my job end of this month which I’m ok with since I have plenty of savings to tide me over but with no job getting my own apartment might be hard. My husband is a hoarder. Massive hoarder. It affects my mental health and in the end it affected my performance at work. I can’t keep up with his mess. I need to leave for my own health. Unfortunately this pandemic has caused issues with the plan, but I’m still working on it. Sometime in 2017, I just stopped picking up after him, so he kind of half assedly does clean up a bit, if he needs a glass for water and there isn’t a clean glass well sucks to be him I guess so he has been doing dishes. I got myself my own office and I just hide there Instead of deal with him and do mine and my kids laundry. When he doesn’t have any clean clothes, I’m like “ guess you’ll have to wash them”. So he does his own laundry.

    I have to deal with my managers abusiveness at work as well on top of the hoarding at home and I’m losing my mind. The reason women are seeing their rights being taken is because we just don’t have the time dealing with work and home. And childless women are too keen to be seen as accommodating to do anything about it.

    [–]jet199 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    This is why it's so dumb when feminist call women lazy or privileged for having cleaners. You have someone come in to do literally any other type of work and it's not even thought about but with cleaners there's essay after essay excusing or commending them. I even had one GC poster saying "my poor mother had to spend years cleaning up after lazy middle class woman." as though having a job (in a country where you have a choice of many jobs) was a form of oppression. I personally, work in accounts and have to deal with sorting out the receipts of many lazy men and women but don't see anyone trying to make a feminist issue out of those people using my services.

    There's some very good arguments that first wave feminism only happened after the rise of the middle classes who could afford cleaners and cooks so the women had free time to concentrate on things like politics (middle income clearly isn't middle class is that instance).

    [–]Amareldys 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah, you don't see essay after essay about people using landscapers, or plumbers to do small repairs, or restaurants to cook your food, or dry cleaners, or handymen.

    [–]Aquadog 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Middle-class women always had some form of domestic help for most of history because it was recognized that it was probably better to have two people get through chores if you wanted time to raise kids (or make clothes, or tend to animals, or have ten minutes to read, etc.). In the last century or so women are now considered "lazy" if they do have someone come in, despite them having new responsibilities that take up their time.

    [–]Girlwiththeraventat 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Wow I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Good on you for making a plan. I really hope it all works out for you. I couldnt handle a hoarder so props to you for even trying to make it work.

    I feel you on the work situation too. My workplace is all petty bs office politics. So stupid. But yeah I feel like women are so worn down now men are trying to slip in and take shit away again. All the new laws on abortion seem to prove that. Its depressing.

    [–]yishengqingwa666 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I wish I could help you get out, that sounds nightmarish.

    [–]missdaisycan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    The reason women are seeing their rights being taken is because we just don’t have the time dealing with work and home. And childless women are too keen to be seen as accommodating to do anything about it.

    Have you time to elaborate on this? I'm appreciative of your comment, it's enlightening- your life is different from my own.

    [–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I think there was an Atlantic article about this. I will add it as an edit once I find it.

    The synopsis if it is that the reason why women with kids and their needs are never politically met is because they don’t have time to politically gather and advocate for their needs. Mostly because they are doing double shifts. Younger women who don’t have these problems can pretend that men and women are equal when quite honestly the real inequality comes when women have kids and other care giving duties. It’s easy to say women is an identity when you don’t have dependents or have to deal with the fallout of those decisions. Even in Radfem circles I’ve noticed that women’s needs especially those of working mothers are swept under the rug. It saddens me that Democrats haven’t addressed how this pandemic has affected women and their careers and family obligations and sadly Trump is like the only one even tangentially talking about this. Closing schools has had a huge impact on women’s lives. Not only have Democrat’s not addressed this they are openly mocking women who have kids for wanting schools to start because it’s affecting their ability to provide for their families. They’ve spent more time addressing the needs of a bunch of men with their identity issues than they have for women who are facing evictions or job loss or poverty because of prolonged school closures. Trump doesn’t care or understand it and is probably bringing it up more as a way to get votes, but at least he is acknowledging that this is an issue. I fucking hate the guy but if he is even listening a bit, what choice does one have.

    [–]yishengqingwa666 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Start talking to lawyers and find out your options. How much life are you gonna let him suck out of you? What a tragic waste. Misery living with an entitled male parasite. Life is TOO SHORT.

    [–]jelliknight 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Go on strike. It's not your job. Completely stop doing the housework until HE comes to you with a proposal for fair division of labor. Don't even tell him you're doing it. Just stop. Stop washing his clothes. Wash yours clothes, your kids, and a towel each for you and the kid. Let the rest stack up and go rank. Wash a dish for you and the kid as needed, let the rest stack up. Cook for yourself and the kid, or get takeaway for yourself and the kid. Let him sort himself out. This was NEVER your responsibility. Do the minimum that you can bear and spend the extra time having fun with your kid or doing things that YOU enjoy.

    [–]Comatoast 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    If he loves you and wants to have a partnership where he values your input, then he will have no choice but to help. Discuss a chore chart, discuss solutions. Try to stay as calm as possible, and god damn if I don't understand how difficult that is, but coming to the table with vitriol can spring up an unnecessary argument that derails progress. Try to remember that men are all different but they each have their own ways of cleaning up (and yes, I'm defending them, but whoopty shit). I'm a control freak and like things the way that I like them done, but ultimately I'm overwhelmed and can't do everything alone. Even if the dishwasher isn't loaded the way that I know it'll actually get the gross shit off of the plates, it's a step.

    I get it. I really do. If my marriage fails, I think I'll look for another hetero woman in the same situation and just treat it like a lesbian relationship with lesbian bed death or whatever it's called.

    [–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I want to thank you for being so honest. I am in awe of you for all your hard work, and I'm impressed you're getting some college in too.
    Playing devil's advocate: You got to have a child. You have someone to share the bills with. I presume there are a lot of times when you know he loves you. Do you really think "there's just nothing in it for women" or just with this particular guy (who might be typical of most men, sadly)? The internet is awash with women posting about "my Dear Husband" and it makes me think I really missed out on something great -- is marriage ever a "win" for a woman? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Disclosure: I never married but I have always romanticized the idea of marriage, despite what I saw at home growing up.

    [–]Aquadog 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I always wanted to get married and I've been married for almost a year now. I'm a pretty cautious, nervous person. I think beyond all of the great qualities my husband has I probably partially married him to feel "safe." Even though I grew up with a great family my parents were very into traditional gender roles-I can't really imagine what my mom would be like on her own.

    Statistically, men gain a LOT more than woman from marriage: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/insight-therapy/201510/is-marriage-worth-it-women

    I like my husband. I like that there are certain legal and financial benefits to being married. But it is 100% more beneficial for him to be married to me than I to him.

    [–]Girlwiththeraventat 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    He does love me. I love him and our family and life we have made for ourselves. Because a lot of it did come from his hard work. I will always love and respect him because of how he stuck by me through everything and worked his absolute ass off to provide for us. Hes also a good dad.

    But being responsible for everything makes me deeply unhappy. But also saying I want a divorce because he doesn't do housework or worry about the administrative parts of life seems so petty.

    Is there anything in marriage for women? I dont know. It's hard to say and even harder to know what the future will hold. Our relationship wasnt always unequal that way. But then we had a kid and I stayed home. So I did all the housework and whatnot. When I went back to work I kept all the housework and added a job. I'm telling you that so you will understand it wasn't always like this. Life is complicated and I guess that answer is something every women has to decide for herself.

    [–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This is so true. After having the kid... everything changes. Not immediately and not in every way, but, you become a mom and he becomes a dad, and those are so much more "roles" than just male and female. It's easier to be sort of equal and break through typical expectations when it's just the two of you, but a kid adds expectations, needs, a whole new set of perspectives, and some of the basic behaviors are just initially set a certain way.

    Like, one of you is going to be more physically weakened by being pregnant, even if you were the athlete before this. One of you is going to be getting up more often to feed a kid, even if you switch to formula (which of course you mustn't do). And then once a kid starts responding to you in the park or the playground, you will be having a different kind of relationship, and a different set of options with other parents or school administrations, and structures start to seem harder to get around than they did when you were young and free. And maybe his good dad-ness shows up more as taking the kid out to play, joking around, and being better at discipline, while you focus more on teaching, talking about emotions, or setting up art projects, and suddenly you're both good parents but living stereotypes.. whether you're encouraged by advice and social norms or personal tendencies, if it happens at all you lean into your gender roles more than before.

    You get more time off from work, more social allowance to depend on him after having a kid, while he becomes more openly recognized as a producer and a provider... Roles just get reinforced more regularly. It's so much easier to fall into them, and once a child goes to school...

    [–]tuesday 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Train your dog or return him to the pound.