How do you really feel about Joe Biden saying his VP pick will be a black woman?

submitted by medium_tomato from self.GenderCritical

Reposting from s/AskWomen since this is a more active sub. Plus I always appreciate GC opinions even if I don't always agree on minor points.

I am also a woman and I hate it so much. It's patronizing as fuck. Do I want a woman in a high position of power? Sure, but not like this. Not because she is a token female and token black.

Am I the only one? I feel like no one is talking about this.

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[–]Terfenclaw 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

It's performative, like most politics. That said, I do like the idea of having more black women in positions of power. I'm pretty sure you could argue that many men benefit from being white and male in order to get into positions of power. Why get angry when a single black woman gets a similar benefit in an extremely limited position?

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I agree. Literally millions of jobs have gone to white men because they were white men. Hell, it was the fucking LAW for a significant part of history. The only thing stupid about what Biden is doing is specifically announcing it. Couldn't he have just picked a black woman without saying he was going to? Now he's put a target on her back for men to claim she didn't get the position based on merit. Those men will, of course, omit the fact that millions of white men have benefited from being the only ones eligible for certain jobs for god knows how long, regardless of whether other people had more "merit".

[–]medium_tomato[S] 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Ok but whoever she is, it IS true that she isn't getting the position due to merit. Because of the history of politics, we have a huge amount of men in politics an a tiny percentage of women. Even tinier is black women. I dont want a stupid pandering interchangeable woman. I want a woman who is smart, capable, and is someone to actually look up to. The pool is far too small here, so that's why I am insulted. If we had like 50% men 50% women in politics, and like 50% of those women were black, then okay MAYBE I can be okay with this kind of pick, but he is literally picking someone purely on biology and skin color, that's like 1%, political views and experience be damned. I just can't support this at all...

Women are fucking capable. I don't want this pathetic infantalization of "ooh lets pick a woman so the little women will be happy and mindlessly vote for me". There is no such thing as the female vote. We are all different, and we can disagree even on this kind of specific sub.

[–][deleted] 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

None of the VPs get their position by merit. If Mike Pence becomes president because Trump choked on some overcooked meat, you won’t be here writing walls of text saying he didn’t get it by merit. It’s only debatable when it involves women. Highly disappointing seeing this here in a women centric space.

[–]OrneryStruggle 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem is that other people who don't get their jobs based on merit at least give the impression that they did. When people see women getting positions BECAUSE they are women it undercuts all the women getting those positions "normally" (even if the normal way is nepotism etc.) in the eyes of the public and discourages girls from trying to actually achieve things in the future.

I know this is not a popular opinion among radfems but I don't like the implications of wanting to select a female politician from available female candidates simply because she is female. I don't think it will be good for women in the long run.

I also think that whoever Biden picks as VP is likely to be barely more competent than Biden himself, which will be an optics disaster if it ends up being a minority woman. No one remotely intelligent would be associating themselves with Biden.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

None of the VPs get their position by merit. If Mike Pence becomes president because Trump choked on some overcooked meat, you won’t be here writing walls of text saying he didn’t get it by merit. It’s only debatable when it involves women. Highly disappointing seeing this here in a women centric space.

[–]Terfenclaw 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So... Are you suggesting that the black women already in politics are not hard working or qualified?

Would you even care if he had said he was choosing a "woman" or a "white woman" as opposed to a "black woman?"

[–]medium_tomato[S] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I actually would have cared very much if it was just woman or white woman. Tbh that is my primary concern, the black thing is just kinda the cherry on top. It's super pathetic to me how he is trying to use a black woman to get him the "black vote" and the "female vote". Like I feel it would be even more demeaning to me if I was black in a way, or if he said he wanted a woman of my actual specific ethnicity.

I don't think that the 2 or 3 black women already in politics aren't hard working or qualified. I think it's just sad that their qualifications are being reduced to their race and sex, not even their stances.. don't you find that at least a little bit demeaning? I would very much support a black VP pick if it was between her and a bunch of others, but just..this way feels super gross.

[–]Terfenclaw 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

2 or 3? That's incredibly dismissive of the many black women in politics. There are way more than that in the House and hundreds more in state legislatures.

I don't find it demeaning. I find it jaded and calculating, like I find most of politics. VP picks are meant to do one thing, and that's to broaden the candidate's appeal. A black woman is a good choice for that because dems absolutely need the black vote. Biden was dumb as hell for announcing it though. You're not supposed to say the silent part out loud in politics.

the black thing is just kinda the cherry on top

You're showing yourself here.

[–]Amareldys 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

VPs are always chosen to court voters who are on the fence about the candidate, and to bring them solidly into the fold.

[–]medium_tomato[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

On one hand yes but on the other hand white men have no issue arguing against white men who they don't agree with. We literally had opposing parties with white men opposing each other. I'm embarrassed that women can't do the same but love this pathetic dangling carrot of "aww I'll pick a cute black woman for you guys".

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

On the other hand ...nothing. You are going to have to work really hard to convince me that Trump is president for no other reason than being a rich white guy. The orange turd has shown in 4 years he is clueless about this country and geopolitics. He has single handedly lowered the bar for presidency to hell. Black women, however few, who have managed to be elected even as Mayor, probably needed way more qualifications to get where they are than Trump did to get to the presidency. Whoever Biden chooses will be more than enough. This hand wringing you are doing while not being able to express why this might be a bad thing, tells me that your problem isn’t the VP pick but that you think only white old men should be able to lead.

[–]medium_tomato[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

What mental gymnastics are you performing that you think I believe only while old men should be able to lead lmfao. I believe that women are strong and capable, and SHOULD lead but it should be deserved and not tokenism.

Women are not fucking interchangeable. Black women are not interchangeable. I will support a specific woman for the things she stands. I will not support some rando chosen just cause she ticks off the marks for being female and black. And the worst part is that the reason I won't support her is because some old white man chose her to check those marks and be interchangeable. That old white manbasically reduced her down to those qualities.

[–]whateverneverpine 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It IS deserved, just because there are only a "tiny" number of black female VP candidates, it doesn't at all mean that it's just tokenism.

[–]OrneryStruggle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't know what you think tokenism is if old white racist pedophilic molester Biden "picking" a black woman for VP isn't tokenism.

[–]whateverneverpine 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL

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    [–]fuckingsealions 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    My fear is that she'll be a scapegoat. The country is a disaster right now. What do companies do when things are going poorly? Bring in a woman CEO! If she succeeds without going down with the ship, could she be a successful nom in 2024? Hmm

    [–][deleted] 21 insightful - 4 fun21 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

    I'm afraid "she" will be trans.

    US voters hate women. I remember people shitting on Sarah Palin before she even opened up her mouth. "Why isn't she at home taking care of her babies?" the "progressive" Democrats I knew said.

    [–]Realwoman 14 insightful - 6 fun14 insightful - 5 fun15 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

    To be fair, her opening her mouth didn't help...

    [–]MenAreFragileBabies 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    That would completely destroy all the milquetoast, middle of the road claptrap Biden has built his whole campaign on. The vast majority of voters are either gender critical or gender conservatives. Queer theory is batshit insane leftwing ideology that will just get us another four years of Trump if the Democrats ever seriously embrace it. Some Democrats are that drunk on the Kool Aid, but most aren't. They just pay it lip service for woke points. No way in hell is Biden going to pick a TIM.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    They seem so tone-deaf to reality at this moment, I could see anything happen.

    [–]whateverneverpine 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    No way. That would be an instant loss for Democrats, and they know it. Hillary Clinton knows it, and said so aloud (in so many words). They know. They won't say they know - but they know.

    [–]terfy_delight 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I watched the Hillary documentary on Hulu and when Hillary was running for president against Obama, there were protesters with signs telling her to go iron their shirts. I had so much going on in my life at that time, I had no idea the vitrol she got just for being a woman. Stuff like that reminds you just how sexist this country is. When she was running for 2016, there were women (yes, plural) in some of my FB groups saying they didn't believe that a woman should be in those kind of leadership positions.

    [–]Realwoman 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

    Pure virtue signaling. Medicare for all covering all prenatal care, delivery and abortions will do far more for women's rights than picking a female VP.

    [–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

    I can't see that ever passing. Many states will vote for R candidates for Senate and House seats, so those kinds of bills will never pass. Too many misogynists in the left wing to support anything for women, either.

    [–]Realwoman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Yep, unfortunately. Also, let's add guarantined maternity leave, better workplace pregnancy protections, expanded childcare and government sponsored childcare, so that women don't have to choose between working and having children.

    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I get what you’re saying, although I see the whole gender-bender BS as a loophole to obliterate maternity leave and other women’s rights. I mean; the left in the UK seems to have abandoned women’s

    If women don’t exist, can they get pregnant? I could see transwomen in left wing politics allowing maternity leave and pregnancy protections to disappear, if only out of spite and to “stick it to the Karens”.

    If men in skirts are women, does anybody really need to hire born women in the first place? Why wouldn’t employers just hire trans and avoid the “problems of breeders”? It’s all problematic, and they want to allow children to trans without parental consent as it is. You will have more TW to elbow women out of any power positions and jobs.

    [–]Realwoman 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I completely agree but I live in the US where maternity leave is non existent. The only federal protection is taking 12 weeks off unpaid if you work for a company with 50 or more employees. And then childcare can cost $2000 a month. So what is a new mother to do? This is the state of women's rights in the US and it's a disgrace. Solving this is a much bigger priority than having a token woman on top. And if that woman is supporting the trans agenda, she will be even worse.

    I don't care if it's a man or a woman that pushes legislation that helps women. Didn't men pass the maternity leave laws in the UK?

    I'm all for having more women in government but policy comes first. Korea had a female president and Korea is still just as patriarchal and she turned out to be controlled by a cult.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    My maternity leave pay was abysmal over a decade ago...

    [–]Realwoman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    That's a serious issue that needs focus

    [–]terfy_delight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Exactly, this whole trans movement is an MRA movement in disguise that will destroy women's rights and make it impossible to talk about women's issues and activism.

    [–]terfy_delight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The left seems to think they solved the problem by erasing women. How can you have sexism if woman is a spectrum and state of mind and all people experience these issues? It's not a woman problem, bc men experience (insert actual woman problem) too.

    [–]OrneryStruggle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Why is it that Americans don't want what the rest of the developed world has and celebrates?

    This seems to go a lot deeper than individual politicians or even parties (democrats don't support M4A either, generally speaking - the party certainly doesn't) but it's such a weird anachronism.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    People are brainwashed to hate anything remotely related to “communism”, and they’ve been taught that unions and social safety networks = “communism”.

    [–]OrneryStruggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I hate communism too as I'm from a post-communist country but even my relatives who lived through brutal communist regimes are pretty down with SOME of the social programs implemented during communist rule which have remained, and miss others which have walked back. The society seems to be more communal and cohesive too even if that cohesion is often based on negativity and suspicion toward governments and government diktats, so I find it kind of strange that Americans who didn't even experience the brutal aspects of communism are so allergic to mildly "socialist" programs.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    A lot of this results from decades of targeted propaganda aimed at US citizens.

    [–]Shinjin_Nana 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    I can understand both sides, I also feel it's patronizing tokenism but also want more qualified women in positions of power.

    That said Biden's TWAW stance would mean that she would have to be a handmaiden for TRAs and toe the progressive anti-biological woman line. I like this less than picking someone of either sex with a feminist leaning.

    Full disclosure: I have no plans of voting for Biden or Trump.

    [–]Lucretia 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    Then you ARE voting for Trump. Make no frigging mistake.

    [–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I would have said the same thing two months ago, but it seems the left wing hates women too, and will sell them out for sweet TRANS-sponsored Benjamins.

    [–]whateverneverpine 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    There's not going to be a TIM vp pick from Biden. There's no TIME, he would have already had to "float" that person in the media, like he has done with the other VP candidates. He didn't because there IS no TIM in politics of the stature of the women already announced as in the running, like Harris, Warren, Abrams, etc. There is no such TIM!!!!

    [–]medium_tomato[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    And that attitude is how you will eventually vote to lose all of your rights and all the protections women fought for before you.

    [–]Shinjin_Nana 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Srsly. How are GC women supposed to vote when both sides have put a target on us.

    Either way we lose.

    [–]whateverneverpine 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Not true.

    [–]Shinjin_Nana 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I find that to be a compelling argument that will change many minds. Bravo for being so succinct in your profound intellectual brevity.

    [–]whateverneverpine 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    More dazzling succinctness: LOL.

    [–]Shinjin_Nana 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, what rights do you want to lose? right to abortion or the right to be a biological woman to the exclusion of biological men who think they are women along with the right to assert biological sex is real...cause right now the left is being super dangerous and won't auto get my vote as in years before.

    We as women know the fight against the right. But the pubic hair filled man-hole pretending to be a vagina on the left is so much deeper, terrifying, and unknown.

    The right knows what a woman is, if only to discriminate against her, while the left is struggling with what a woman IS (because woke men have decided the definition is in flux).

    Don't pretend that the left isn't discriminating against women in their own, special way.

    [–]terfy_delight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I've been on the GC sub long enough to realize that many of the women here only care about (white) women issues. They think this is all just about abortion and trans. Trump's racist and xenophobic policies that effect WOC, aren't a big deal to them. And honestly, it isn't even just about WOC, bc white women should be concerned about the direction we are headed under Trump, too. The trans issue is only a small issue when you look at the big picture.

    [–]jkfinn 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    As far as I know, Biden has never promised the VP would be a black woman, but rather indicated that several black and other women of color were good possibilities (maybe there's been an update). I'm sure this outcome was closest during the BLM surge, and may just recede a little if a new news tide arises. But it does seem certain that the Dem VP candidate will be a woman--as promised, which is a breakthrough (yes, with a lot of qualifiers)

    [–]Terfenclaw 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Thanks for mentioning this. Good to know that the OP was a misrepresentation.

    [–][deleted] 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    Watch.. it'll be a transwoman.

    I dislike Trump, but I also feel completely abandoned by the left.
    Even in regards to the abortion issue... I could see them flip-flopping so their rich transwomen friends can adopt more babies and "play house". They sold out so quickly to the corporate interests regarding the trans issue that my head is spinning. Women don't matter to them because we can't donate the big bucks.

    [–]whateverneverpine 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    No, it won't. Have you been paying attention to the media? Biden has already made it known who's he's been talking to. It's too late in the game (there are around 100 days to election)there is no fucking TIME to introduce trans candidate and have that take over the narrative in the short amount of time left. No one really gives a shit because covid, economy, etc are so pressing and hurting so many people - Dems are NOT going to put out a TIM VP pick when millions are in line for food and for covid testing. Absolutely not.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I’m at the point where nothing will surprise me or shock me anymore.

    [–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If she sounds remotely more coherent than Biden, I’ll take it. The dude is going to croak soon and we need someone with better skills to run this country than either Biden or Trump. I’m totally ok with it. No one is humming or hawing about Trump or Biden as leaders but we need to worry about “Tokenism” when it comes to women. So far female leaders globally have had better luck containing this pandemic. I’ll take my chances with a black woman.

    [–]inneedofspace 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Doesn't bother me, sometimes favors are the only way to get black people (or women) into positions of power as long as they're qaulified for the position the only way this can even be a bad thing is if you believe no black person is ever qualified (not talking about you op, people in general). I just don't like the way Biden is pandering for the black vote, he's already said something like "you're not black if you don't vote for me" or "black people will vote for me" something like that, I hope Biden knows no one owes him a vote and anyways with the way Obama handled transgender rights I don't really trust him, democrats are not really good for any woman right now. So I don't know who I'm voting for this year wish republicans would pick better candidates I wish the people would realize there's more than two parties, I wish democrats would come back down to reality.

    [–]medium_tomato[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Your last sentence really hits.. I feel the same exact way. I just can't find a candidate I can vote for this election, but I don't want to sit this one out.

    [–]quickbeam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I feel better about it than if he were to pick a white woman or a white man, because no matter who he picks it's probably not going to be a progressive like I'd prefer, so he should at least pick someone who might have some chance in hell of helping him demographically speaking. If he picked say Barbara Lee I'd be delighted, but I never see her as a potential choice.

    [–]cybitch 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's insulting, because it implies a person being black and a woman means they are going to make certain decisions. Why not say he promises to choose someone who has opinions supporting the rights of women? Instead he just goes "I promise the candidate will have a uterus and a certain skin color". Okay, and? As though black women can't be as self-serving and corrupt as any other politician.

    [–]SkinnyVanilla 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If he were talking about a specific Black female politician that he wanted as a running mate for specific, nameable reasons, I'd be pleased. As it is, it's such naked pandering that it grosses me out. It grosses me out the same way it grossed me out that he spoke on that radio interview as though he were owed the votes of Black Americans, simply by virtue of being the Democratic candidate.

    [–]yishengqingwa666 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    He's a fucking rapist and is fully on the trans train. He is desperate.

    [–]Lucretia 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Good. I feel good about it. And I feel sick of bad actors trying to push DemExit.

    [–]medium_tomato[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    You can still support dems while hating this tokenism. Can I ask more about why do you feel good about it? I feel like this VP pick is so different from Hillary actually running herself, or Nancy Pelosi or even AOC, who are already very outspoken and big female personalities in politics on their own, even if I don't always agree with them.

    [–]whateverneverpine 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Harris ran for President, Tammy Duckworth had a presidential bid I believe herself - these are not mere "tokens," but female politicians with presidential ambitions.

    [–]ThisReality 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    And I feel sick of bad actors trying to push DemExit.

    Preach.

    [–]JoeDzhugashvili 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    DemExit is a net good if you oppose imperialism, police states, and the capitalist class

    The only difference between the parties is what rhetoric they use and which faction of the capitalist class they represent

    [–]Spikygrasspod 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I want 50% women politicians. I want everyone to stop lying that it's a 'meritocracy' and to put in place policies to undo the egregious bias of the current system. I want to be represented by the kind of people who haven't proven time and time again that they're incapable of even seeing my concerns, let alone addressing them. So yeah, not happy with a token pick.

    [–]whateverneverpine 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    they aren't token just because they may be token to some Democrats and some voters.

    [–]Spikygrasspod 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I was thinking of this:

    "tokenism n. The policy of making only a perfunctory effort or symbolic gesture toward the accomplishment of a goal, such as racial integration. n. The practice of hiring or appointing a token number of people from underrepresented groups in order to deflect criticism or comply with affirmative action rules. n. A policy of formally complying with efforts to achieve a goal by making small, token gestures; especially to hire a minimal number of ethnically diverse or disadvantaged people"

    I'm not saying a black woman in a position of power wouldn't be good. I'm saying it's not enough, because appointing a single black woman doesn't change the underlying structures that result in the incredible bias that prevents black women specifically, and all women generally, getting into politics in greater numbers. I'm saying it's a token gesture because there's no structural change; it would be a 'benevolent' choice by the man in power.

    [–]whateverneverpine 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I laugh at the idea that there will ever be "enough" in American politics, to change "underlying structures." That will take 100s of years, or a couple of horrible wars, like in Europe, which did change "underlying structures" (monarchy at least).

    [–]YourSister 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    My mother, a 69 year old black woman, thinks it is about right: she'll take over when Joe can no longer handle it, and clean up the white men's mess, like women have done for time memorial.

    I think she's got wisdom, and I'd like a president who looks like me.

    [–]Realwoman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Did Condoleezza Rice clean up any white men's messes or did she actively help create the disaster that is the Iraq War?

    [–]censorshipment 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

    I'll never vote for a white man regardless of who his VP is.

    [–]Lucretia 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Then you are voting for Trump. Tacitly.

    [–]medium_tomato[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    That literally makes no sense.

    [–]whateverneverpine 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    It makes perfect sense. Are we being trolled here?

    [–]medium_tomato[S] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    So would you vote for a black woman if she is a raging TRA activist and pro lifer, if she is the only woman there?

    [–]censorshipment 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    😐 I didn't say that. Smh

    [–]medium_tomato[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    I understand you didn't say that. I am just curious about hypothetical questions. If you wouldn't vote for a white man, but the only other option would be a black woman who has completely differing views from you, would you be likely to vote for her, or abstain?

    I am super undecided right now because no candidate is bringing to the plate a lot of things I support. A lot of people keeps saying Jo Jorgensen but I don't agree with libertarian views so I am unlikely to vote for her as well.

    [–]censorshipment 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I'd continue to vote for a third-party candidate who isn't a white man.

    [–]whateverneverpine 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    She wouldn't be a Dem candidate, then.

    [–]Nona_Biba 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I'd rather have a competent VP, one who will mesh with Biden and create a coherent administration over a VP of a specific race or sex personally. Of course there are competent women and people of color to do the job- but I don't want those attributes being the NUMBER ONE qualifier ya know?

    [–]ThisReality 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I feel that anyone who passes vetting (and most who wouldn't pass) for the Democratic VP nomination will be light years better than Trump/Pence. That's how I feel about it. I can't get all butthurt about Biden specifying a black woman as his VP pick. Why shouldn't he open that door for black women? Why shouldn't they walk right through that open door?

    [–]whateverneverpine 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree. Issue's not important.

    [–]ReapWhirlwinds 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Him having said that in advance sets whoever it is up for failure. He's undermining her authority before she's even been named, ffs.

    She'll be perceived as a "diversity pick" and every mistake she makes will be attributed to her not being competent enough to be chosen on her own merit. She'll be hated by right wing misogynists even more than a black woman in a position of power would normally be hated. It's a stick that will be used to beat this person till the end of her political career.

    I do not think that such perceptions would be accurate - I think any black woman in a position of sufficient political prominence to be chosen as VP is likely to be a HYPERcompetent person. But it doesn't matter. He's kneecapped his running mate with the freaking starting pistol. Nice work, Biden.

    [–]Amareldys 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree he shouldn't have announced it, he should have just picked one.

    [–]Realwoman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Personally, competence is not all that matters in a politician. I care what they stand for. If we have a competent libertarian who will competently destroy so many of the benefits that help society, I don't want to that person. One of the good things about Trump is that he's incompetent, so he can't properly achieve any of his ridiculous goals, such as the wall.

    Margaret Thatcher was very competent and her legacy is destroying the middle class. I don't want competent people that are able to lie better and achieve the goals of their buddies while not helping regular people.

    [–]Amareldys 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    For decades women haven't been chosen because "The US isn't ready for a female president".

    All those guys got chosen BECAUSE they were men.

    Everyone gets chosen because of their demographic, and how people feel about it. It's very rare that it doesn't play the part. We just don't notice it when it's a man because it is the default. But their sex played a factor too...

    [–]JoeDzhugashvili 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    As meaningless as any other idpol

    So the VP of the person bombing foreign countries, destroying foreign economies, militarizing the police force, exploiting foreign labor, etc. is a woman? What difference should that make, lmao?

    You think a Yemeni child cares who the US VP is?

    [–]terfy_delight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Biden never said his VP will be a Black woman. He said his VP will be a woman. How do you feel about him committing to having a woman VP, in general?

    I'd be fine with it, just like Im fine with him saying he'd choose a woman. There are many capable, intelligent Black women who are more than qualified. Im fine with one of them being VP over another mediocre White man. If we dont push for and support women being in power, then we're fine with the status quo. Im not.

    [–]medium_tomato[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I said this to another commenter but my main dislike was that it was going to be a woman. Do I wish it was a woman? Yes but I never want it to be like this. Other commenters here have said things much more eloquently but I dislike that he is announcing this stuff right off the bat. Before we know the individual pick or the nominees he has reduced them to their sex and maybe race. Or the fact that they are not white. Like to me it's like having them be interchangeable objects to help him prop up his ladder. Different women have very different opinions and things they would prioritize as VP or maybe even president. There are a number of female politicians whose stances I very much disagree with and would not want her, that particular woman, to be president.

    Also as another good commenter said, this woman may be qualified but by announcing it like this, and only choosing her from a tiny specific pool of possible picks, Biden already reduced her as a token pick to be scrutinized for that reason. I don't like this, I think it reflects badly on female politicians and just dirties up the efforts.

    [–]terfy_delight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I disagree. I see a huge disparity between women and men leaders. I'm okay with vocalizing that there's a disparity and vocalizing that he will do this small part to address that. Although, I thought we had too many candidates, I was very proud and happy to see the diversity of candidates campaigning for the nomination. And then at the end we're left with two old white men, not bc theyre the best, but bc everyone was so much harder on the women and poc. Mayor Pete made it far, but do you think a woman with his lack of qualifications would even be standing on the stage that late in the game. A unicorn politician doesn't exist and a vote is not a lottery ticket.

    We were left with two old white men- one who half the time can't keep his words straight and the other who only knows one vague stump speech, and somehow we end up with this reflects badly on women. How about let's continue to work on normalizing seeing women in powerful political positions first. The only way we do that is by recognizing - and vocalizing- its a problem and pushing to fix it. I read the comments and I'm disappointed that the posters can look at the women who he's considering, and then reduce them to tokens. Biden hasn't done that. Its the assumption here that woman or Black woman is somehow in conflict with good candidate. These women are more than qualified, and they won't be getting this position bc they are a woman. They'll be getting this position bc theyre qualified and we've prioritizing making sure qualified women arent shut out and passed over for another mediocre white man.

    There are a number of female politicians whose stances I very much disagree with and would not want her, that particular woman, to be president.

    Our choices for president are Biden and Trump, and Trump's VP is Pence. We're beyond the point of our ideal candidate. Biden's woman VP will be the most competent person on this ticket.

    [–]Amareldys 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I hope she's awesome whoever she is.

    [–]Bogos 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    We are surely between a rock and a hard place. Biden would not be my choice at any other time. But I will vote for him.

    [–]TeaAndCigarettes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I feel like Joe Biden needs to understand that no one is voting for him because of him, his stances, his VP pick, anything. We're voting for him out of being forced to pick between him and a worse evil. I'm voting for him so poor Ruth Bader Ginsburg can fucking retire and get replaced with someone who is hopefully not a dumpster fire of misogyny.

    [–]GraceWindsorWexler 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's typical Dem pandering, but I have high hopes that any woman chosen for the job would transcend the patronization.

    [–]Jalaces 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Did he name a specific black woman or did he just say he wanted to find a black woman? It depends a lot who it is. Is it Candace Owens? Is it Kamala Harris? Is it Ilhan Omar? Very different women.