"he/him lesbians" are driving me mad.

submitted by anonymoussapphic from self.GenderCritical

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[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

Nope, sorry, I am not a "female homosexual", nor am I "gay", I am a lesbian, period.

[–]oofreesouloo 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What? 😂 Gay men are male homosexuals, lesbians are female homosexuals. You literally cannot define lesbianism without resorting to the words 'female' and 'homosexual' which means same sex.

[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

You don't need to use the word "homosexual" to define lesbians. "Women (as in females) who are exclusively attracted to those of the same sex" does just fine for a definition of lesbianism.

"Homosexual" includes women the way "humanity" or "mankind" includes women. That is, we're "included", but not really. It's been that way all my life and I'm 67. You can use it, but without specifying the inclusion of women, as in "lesbians and gay men" or "homosexual men AND WOMEN" everyone just assumes it's all about men. You can't speak of "homosexuals" alone, with no mention of women or lesbians, without having almost NOBODY thinking of women. The literal meaning of the word "homosexual" being "same sex" does not mitigate this situation. "Homosexual", btw, means "same sex" in Greek, but in Latin the word "homo" means "man", so "homosexual" would be "man sex."

Also, and this is only my own personal feeling about the word, "homosexual" is an ugly and clinical term which seems fine to me for describing male sexual relations if that's how they want to describe their gay relations, but doesn't come close to doing justice to woman identified love.

However, we have to admit that "lesbian" is also a pretty weird word for women with same sex attraction. A Lesbian, in the original sense of the word, is somebody who resides on /originates from the island of Lesbos in the Aegean Sea, and as such men as well as women are and have been Lesbians.

[–]oofreesouloo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I understand where you're coming from, but I still think you're overthinking it as well. So, let's agree to disagree? I do agree that the word 'lesbophobia' should be used more often, but I'm not against the use of 'homophobia'. So, yeah.

[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

"Overthinking", yep, sounds like me (really). Will agree to disagree. I'm also not against the use of "homophobia" either, but my reaction was prompted by the fact that that is the word I ALWAYS see used, never "lesbophobia."

[–]oofreesouloo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If you're not against the use of 'homophobia', then, by the logic, you're also not against the use of 'homosexual', which you claim to be. (By the way, you mentioned the etimology of the word 'homosexual'. You said 'homo' means 'man' in Latin. And is the 'man' refering to the male sex or the mankind, as in, human beings in general? What about heterosexual? What does 'hetero' stand for in Latin? I'm genuinely curious)

[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"Homophobia" still seems like a mostly male identified term to me, but it may occasionally be used when speaking of both sexes. However I don't like it when speaking of lesbians alone for the reason I gave. I am still against the word "homosexual" for women as it has more of an ugly, clinical sound to my ears even than "homophobia". That may be highly subjective, but that's how I experience the two terms.

[–]oofreesouloo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Exactly, so you're arguing from a subjective personal point of view. It's still not objectively incorrect to use it when referring to lesbians, and that's what I mean. I actually personally prefer to say I'm homosexual than lesbian sometimes, especially in these days that people are trying to conflate sex with gender and homosexual means clearly 'same sex'. To each their own, I guess.

[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not "arguing from a "subjective, personal point of view." It is a FACT that these "generic" terms, such as "human being" , "person" , "homosexual" are not true generics in that they mostly refer to men and leave out women. Try reading any "history of mankind" or treatise about "the homosexual." My subjectivity consists only in my experiencing of the term "homosexual" as more ugly and clinical than the term "homophobic" for some reason.

But yes, one advantage (the only one I can think of) for the word "homosexual" is that it specifies sex, homoSEXual, not homoGENDERal.

[–]oofreesouloo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let's agree to disagree.

[–]Realwoman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Homosexual means attracted to the same sex. Lesbian is a word describing women attracted to women, the word comes from the name of the Greek island Lesbos where Sappho was from. Lesbian just means homosexual woman.

TRAs are the ones that want to change what words mean.

[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everything I wrote indicates that I already understand the meanings of the words you are now endeavoring to explain to me, so don't bother me with redundant explaining. Language is very important in getting meanings across, as the work of Mary Daly abundantly demonstrates. She said that women have had the power of naming stolen from us and invented quite a few woman identified words herself. TRAs also understand the importance of language, as demonstrated by their efforts to twist the meanings of words to our detriment. TRAs are not the only ones on earth who coin new language, interpret old language in new ways and / or who have the right to touch language in any way. Please do not equate my second wave, woman identified choices of which language to use and which not to use with the putrid, misogynistic deeds of the TRAs. Thank you.