German state bans burqas, niqabs in schools

submitted by blackrainbow from (dw.com)

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[–]Tortoise 4 insightful - 7 fun4 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 7 fun -  (21 children)

As much as I dislike the burqa, it is an infringement on religious freedom to ban it.

[–]Queen_Of_The_Roombas 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Its not religious freedom to force children to cover head to toe because of your backward ass religion.

[–]Lilith_Fair 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is not religious freedom since women are forced to wear burqas or else face corporal punishment. Unless you think we shouldn't infringe on the religious freedom of men to control and physically punish women.

[–]Realwoman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're not even womem, they're girls!

[–]Queen_Of_The_Roombas 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, and if it's not physical punishment it's intense social pressure.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Whose freedom? Surely not the girls'! It's their parents' freedom to force their daughters to adhere to whatever they wish against their daughters' will. Maybe let the girls decide once they are adults?

[–]Tortoise 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, then we can apply that to a whole bunch of other things, and now we have crossed the line of the state parenting your children, which, in my opinion, goes too far.

[–]DimDroog 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Fuck those religious customs!

I think it's an infringement on children's rights to force them to practice a religion frankly, any religion!

[–]Tortoise 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I agree, islam, and I mean all of islam, is bullshit.

But I think this is an overstep by the government. It is not the German governments job to dictate how your children are raised.

[–]immersang 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Right, so if there are people clearly mistreating their children in other ways, forcing them to work for example, then the government also shouldn't do anything, because that's just how these people decide to raise their children? No, we have child labor laws for that and for good reason. Just as we have laws around education to ensure that parents don't just, for example, take their daughters out of school and keep them from receiving an education because their worldview includes "women should just stay home and marry".

The idea that parents always know what's best and should be able to do with their kids however they please is a strange one at best and a highly dangerous one at worst.

[–]Tortoise 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The government let's amish children work.

[–]immersang 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I wish US posters here would understand that not every discussion is focused on their country. Honestly, I love your country, but not everything is about you. This is clearly a discussion about the situation in Germany and we do neither have Amish nor homeschooling nor anything else connected to that (such as children apparently working full time).

[–]Tortoise 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Fair enough, and you should not be running your government based off american opinions just as we should not be running our government off yours.

That being said though, as is the entire internet is filled with people outside of america giving their input on how to run things, so I think its only fair americans can do the same, we just shouls mutually agree we are not going to listen to eachother because America is for the americans and Germany is for the germans.

[–]immersang 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh? I’m not telling you you cannot have an opinion on the matter. The only thing I was saying is that you tried to argue based on facts that are not true for Germany, i.e. my comment on child labor laws is somehow not true because the US government allows Amish children to work.

I’m simply asking you to understand that not everything is the same in other countries as it is in yours.

[–]SharpTomorrow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Feminists don't have to defend religious freedoms, just like they don't have to defend sex work or gender reassignment .

[–]Tortoise 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

No one said you had to defend anything.

No one said I am going to agree with your beliefs fully though.

[–]SharpTomorrow 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No one said I am going to agree with your beliefs fully though.

it is an infringement on religious freedom to ban it.

Well you invoked "freedom of religion", feminists don't have to defend freedom of religion or Islam at first place, a misogynistic religion. Your silly argument could also be applied to FGM, which makes your point preposterous at first place. Islam doesn't mandate the burqa at first place.

I don't have beliefs I have principles. And complaining about "religious freedom" is the least of my worries. Nobody has prevented muslims from believing in Allah in Germany. No religious freedom has been violated.

[–]Tortoise 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I mean, you can always take of a burqua, you cant undo FGM, its not the same.

And all principles are beliefs.

[–]SharpTomorrow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Principles aren't beliefs. Beliefs implies faith, principles do not. Both the burqa and FGM are barbaric and as a feminist I don't have to defend freedom of religion over the fight against misoginy. The Burqa isn't even a religious garment, it's misogynistic and barbaric and should be banned just like FGM.

[–]Tortoise 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So you have the belief that your principals are more than beliefs.

[–]SharpTomorrow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So you have the belief that your principals are more than beliefs.

Look up the definition of words, maybe it will help you in life, going forward, you'll sleep smarter.

[–]immersang 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nobody has prevented muslims from believing in Allah in Germany. No religious freedom has been violated.

Exactly. Just when some religious custom is at odds with the law, that's where religious freedom ends. As it should. For example, shechita without sedating the animal first is prohibited under German animal welfare laws.