The professionals that recognize the reality of autogynephilia are getting one thing very wrong

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

They know it's a paraphilia, but they say it's a HARMLESS one, unlike some paraphilias like pedophilia.

Really, harmless? Are they not paying attention at all? This is clearly harmful. Look around. Look at the fall out on women, LGB, lesbians in particular, our sports, our prisons, society as a whole including mass deception, transing children with no questions allowed, ruining the lives of those who question their ideology, rewriting language, erasing biology, manipulating crime stats, holding our media captive, and on and on.

Yet this isn't a harmful paraphilia?

If all around WREAKING HAVOC ON SOCIETY isn't enough, what about the fact that paraphilias tend to run in groups? So of the TiMs that commit crimes, a high number of those crimes are incredibly stomach turning and depraved.

What about the fact that AGP men themselves have come into GC spaces to thank participants for opening their eyes so that they didn't give in to the affirm-the-hell-out-of- everyone narrative and lose their lives to their fetish? They sure feel doing so would have HARMED them individually.

Don't tell us it isn't harmful. Don't tell them it isn't harmful. If it were a harmless fetish, this would be unfolding very differently in the world, and there'd be no reason for this subreddit to exist or for any of us to waste further energy pushing back against the destruction.

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[–]meranii 91 insightful - 1 fun91 insightful - 0 fun92 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It definitely isn't harmless for the women that live with or directly around these men on an individual level either. They consider stealing female family members' underwear a "rite of passage" and jerking off into it "just coming to terms with their gender". And if they target children/children's underwear then it's just "wishing for a girlhood they never had!".

A lot of them act like absolute creeps and abusers, too. These are sexual harassers who have found a way to turn themselves into victims by jumping on the ridiculous notion, in woke spaces, that anything "trans" is beyond any form of criticism.

[–]Aquadog 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have never come across anyone in a relationship with a TiM that has been healthy. They're almost always emotionally abusive, manipulative, constantly gaslighting, etc. I was sexually abused in a relationship with someone-he came out as a TiM shortly after we broke up.

[–]MarkTwainiac 62 insightful - 1 fun62 insightful - 0 fun63 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Thank you for making this point, OP.

Many men with AGP also have wives and children, and their AGP is directly, actively and massively harmful to their spouses and kids as well. As the trans widows threads on mumsnet and the sites like the new transwidows.com show.

AGP men get off on invading their adolescent daughters' privacy and boundaries to "borrow" and wear the girls' underwear cuz doing so makes their daddy dicks hard. Jenner brags about having done this to his two youngest daughters when they were pubescent. One of his stepdaughters - I think it was Khloe - caught him and was sworn to secrecy; if she told anyone, it would destroy her mother and ruin her mother's marriage to Bruce, he warned - making the whole issue not about his creepy transgressions but about her being a dutiful daughter.

AGP men often destroy and bankrupt their entire families as they devote more and more of their energy, time and the family's money to trying to live out their sick sexual fantasies. Many of them are envious and covetous of the female people in their lives to the point of scary rage, including their small pre-pubescent daughters.

Then there's the ones who insist on trying to "breastfeed" their newborn babies cuz it gets them off - showing no concern whatsoever for the nutritional, immunological, psychological needs of infants. These are very disturbed men who do a great deal of damage.

[–][deleted] 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

^ All of this. All too real.

Another danger to watch for -- adult AGPs "diagnosing" prepubescent children in the family as trans-in-the-making and treating them accordingly.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is one of many highly disturbing and completely unacceptable consequences we will never be able to quantify that TRA ideology is ushering in. This environment is a wonderland for abusers.

[–]CaliforniGinger 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was Kim, and I wonder how much mental damage trying to deal with that caused her. It sounds like it was very traumatic for her.

[–]Aquadog 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He wore Kim's lingerie, but Khloe had also seen the underwear, as did Kendall & Kylie. Gee, I wonder why you're wearing your most sexualized stepdaughter's clothes...must just be because it fits!

[–]our_team_is_winning 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

his creepy transgressions

Wow, that word TRANSgression just took on new meaning for me! Maybe we should write it like that to mean just that. TRANSgressions!

[–]SameOldBS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm starting to think AGPs are the ultimate form of narcissism. Talk about self love.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The sexologists who've studied and written about AGPs - Rap Blanchard, Michael Bailey, Anne Lawrence (who is an AGP TIM himself - say that this is definitely the case. Here's Lawrence's paper, "Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism":

http://pfox.org/Shame-Rage.pdf

Here's an AGP describing his paraphilia and the narcissism inherent to it on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/PeanutButterRo2/status/1083654785910427649

[–]SameOldBS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's really interesting. Thank you for the links.

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I’m really worried about kids in general, too. I can easily see how pedophilia overlaps with this population. I also see some signs that there’s a connection between extremist trans groups and pedophilia apologism.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

All of this, and I don't think it's a stretch to think that normalizing this as a legitimate sexual orientation throws open the door for any perversion to be considered valid. What's this push to consider all sexuality good and natural and right to indulge?

Knowing what's out there, I absolutely do not want the moral boundaries of society eroded in this way. Plus it's all for the benefit of men with everyone else as casualties. It's like the focus is on the sexual expression of the poor kinky males and how they suffer when they can't be themselves in our mean, judgy society with its mean, discriminating norms. Nah, none of you are victims of society, but women and children become the victims of you and your deviance.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Exactly. I mean, homosexuality has existed for ages, as has bisexuality. I have no problems with that in terms of consenting adults. Many people who are gay or bi kind of “know” at a young age, even before they’re interested in sex at all.

THIS Trans phenomenon is attempting to validate pornographic sexuality as it’s shaped through the internet, and as it’s defined by misogynistic men— not by some natural inclination that seems to innately develop in people.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yes this should under no circumstances be conflated with homosexuality or bisexuality. Hetero/homo/bi are sexual orientations. (And asexuality? I haven't thought about it much.)

AGP men already have a sexual orientation: they're heterosexual. AGP shouldn't be thought of as an additional sexual orientation, more like a sexual glitch. It'd be better classified as a mental illness.

Tbh I think it also exists without porn, though I'm still piecing together an understanding from some self- aware AGP stories, and it still doesn't mean it should be classified as a-ok any more than other harmful, distorted paraphilias. I mean I'm sure many criminals had their own variety of "innate" sexual pulls or violent pulls but an inclination or obsession toward a thing doesn't make it an acceptable, valid, healthy orientation. Some people are just fucked up. And human male sexuality especially can range into deviance, but the deviance should not be able to get a pass as harmless and elbow its way in with the healthy sexual orientations shared by the rest of humanity.

My view right now is that porn feeds a fetish that is there (like CP feeds a demand by pedos) but also creates the fetish--we know porn can alter the brain and a person's sexuality. I still believe porn is a major factor in manufacturing TiMs (and general perversion).

Edit to add: so from my patchy understanding AGP may exist on its own when males attracted to females (normal) have an erotic target glitch and fixate on themselves as women instead (pathology). And if het sexuality can be led off like this, I can see how it also can be a pathology mass produced by and reinforced by porn

[–]sisterinsomnia 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The role of sissy porn and such would be a good topic for actual research, to see if it makes AGP more common.

The difference between past AGPs and today's AGPs is in the climate (you TERF DIESCUM).

Today's AGPs see no reason not to involve outsiders in their fetish because they have that strong 'transphobia' stick to use if anyone complains. In the past fetishes were mostly hidden from the general public, but when it comes to this particular fetish AGPs can without any risk force others to play along.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I definitely think AGP existed before internet porn, but that it's increased dramatically since internet porn has existed. I think those who were involved in that fetish used to keep it within certain tight circles-- but the current day trend is to offensively push it into people's faces. Porn makes them think everyone should to/wants to push their fetishes into other people's faces.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, AGP can exist without porn, or independent of it. The AGP in my family wasn't trying to cultivate sissy or sexy -- they were trying to "become" a strong female family member who had passed away. Couldn't make that up.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't shit on coping mechanisms, but fuck. Couldn't he have just slept next to her old dress or something?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That definitely would have been preferable. And saner. Or even grief counseling. Or any counseling (other than pro-AGP online bullshit).

[–]Anandamide 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ready to Glare and Blaire White have both done videos on so-called MAPs (Minor attracted people aka pedos). Got their own pride hashtags and tried to adopt the language of LGBT to normalize their sick shit.

[–]SameOldBS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yeah, they're definitely going to go there next.

[–]inneedofspace 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is harmful, not just for women but for them too, I wish people wouldn't dismiss autogynophilia all together. A lot of transwomen have said their partners end up transitioning themselves, which isn't that much different from cross dressing men who seek out cross dressers because they're cross dressers themselves, what researchers know is men who view transgender porn (and I'm guessing seek out trans partners and end up transitioning based on what I've heard) were studied they are autogynophiles?(-philiacs?). It's not really all people with gender dysphoria I worry about (though I still strongly disagree with the idea that we should get rid of female centric spaces which they're considered "cis" therefore "privileged female bodied" spaces), it's the "you don't need gender dysphoria to transition" people who are most likely fetishizers and they're doing themselves a disservice by not acknowledging that and exploring that part of themselves privately.

[–]aqrylix 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Fuck these autogyneapigs. They get off on making anyone in their orbit participate in their fetish. That's enough of a harm to me to warrant blasting them off the planet.

[–]Realwoman 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I think autogynepilia is only harmful in a combination with the current TRA madness. I'm not aware of problems it caused prior to that.

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

These men need to know they are acting out a sexual fetish rather than being told they are becoming who they really are and entitled to pursue something they can never be. Then they could handle it privately or through specific sexual avenues and clubs. I would personally want to be very clear, for the sake of sound decisions based in reality, if I had a kink, an urge driven by eroticism, rather than some "true inner identity." That is really where this whole thing has gotten completely out of control.

That said, as other commenters highlighted, it still is destructive to those close to the AGP man, and I've read a lot of pain about AGP from men themselves.

And if experts view it as harmless and encourage transition and acceptance, I believe there are still questions of harm and ethics.

[–]Realwoman 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I meant, I didn't think it was harmful before the men that have it started being encouraged to transition. But I guess I was wrong.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know what you mean though, initially thinking that enabling the acting out of the AGP is what's harmful, not the AGP. But by not viewing AGP as harmful the clinician will enable its being acted out, treating it more like a sexuality to be expressed for the wellbeing of the client rather than a disorder to tread very carefully with.

We're on the same page, just replying because it gives me the opportunity to put down my clarified thoughts for others to read too.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I am, by direct experience. I've witnessed everything but the actual masturbatory rituals and attempted breastfeeding (thankfully). It all predated the recent rise of TRA and was enabled by a network of online "support groups" an non-gatekeeping clinicians.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for this info. This seems to have an addictive, destructive quality to it that can absolutely consume lives, and I'm not trustful of any push to normalize or view this as some kind of no-problemo, judge-not sexual orientation.

[–]Realwoman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ew, I didn't think about that. I guess you're right

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Breastfeeding???

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://rareddit.com/r/itsafetish/comments/gf3rac/trans_woman_admits_to_getting_off_on/

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's... profane. The baby does not exist to validate that adult's appropriated identity or medically constructed 'femininity'.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeeeeah. Sorry about that. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hope this is a one-off and not an actual trend :/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same here . . .

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think autogynepilia is only harmful in a combination with the current TRA madness. I'm not aware of problems it caused prior to that.

Guess it depends on what you mean by "harmful" and "problems." I personally know several families who were destroyed, and all the members deeply damaged, by their dads' AGP in the 1970s. These men were abusive, highly narcissistic gaslighters who wreaked havoc on their wives and kids in myriad ways. The men are dead now (each had several strokes from taking estrogen, and one died of AIDS), but the damage and distress they caused to their families still lives on and is very evident in the pain and problems their now-grown children continue to cope with to this very day.

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wouldn't have perhaps these families been destroyed by the men's narcissism, not by AGP?

There seems to be a connection between narcissism and autogynephilia.

[–]SameOldBS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, beyond doubt. Narcissism is central to AGP.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, narcissism or any cluster B personality disorder on the part of a parent could/would destroy families. But an additional level of mind fuckery occurs when a nearly 50-year-old man starts demanding that his kids call him mom, and insisting that he do "girl things" with his daughters - and he says it's unfair and bigoted when his the daughters don't want to share their undies, clothing and makeup with him. Especially when he's been sexually abusing all his kids of both sexes in the family since forever.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes -- any Axis II Cluster B will do, also some forms of Bipolar. They're a perfect framework for AGP.

[–]SameOldBS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. If society wasn't endorsing it and cheering them on as stunning and brave, it wouldn't be such a problem.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The people that push these overarching, radical forms of "transformative" public policy frequently minimize the negative impact precisely because they're not the ones being impacted. The Vision of the Anointed marches on.