I've just discussed with my friends

submitted by Criticalofgender from self.GenderCritical

I just have debated with my friends about how I don't think of trans women as women and everyone was against me. But most importantly, a friend, who is bisexual like me, has compared them like the same and I was just so angry amd sad that I cried hard until I left.

I remember someone was in the same situation as me not a long time ago and, well, I just need support. What do you guys think?

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[–]oofreesouloo 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Hey! I really hope you're feeling more calm right now. Hugs <3 Not too long ago, I was discussing this topic and also how it affects the meaning of sexuality with like 5 people and they were ALL against me. I felt like a put up a good fight AND eventually I had two supporters of me as well, in particular one of them sticked up with me until the end. I know how overwhelming it can be. But do you know one thing that I noticed? At least 3 of them who were against me were bisexual. So, these 3 bisexual people were "enlighting" me, a lesbian and thus, a monossexual, HOW "reductive" I was being in "reducing people to genitals". That my "penis repulsion" was NOT normal. That I needed to UNLEARN IT. As you can imagine, me, a homosexual person who've tried to like several times guys before because I used to feel shameful of my sexuality, took it as something highly offensive and infuriating. I tried to maintain calm and focus on a healthy debate, but EXCUSE ME??????? And also, my supporters, guess what? Both monosexuals! Coincidence? I don't think so. One of them was a straight man and another, I'm pretty sure was a gay man but I think he didn't want to come out to protect himself (maybe he's not out). SO, why am I telling you this? I've noticed that MANY TRAs supporters tend to be either bisexuals or asexuals OR straight people who clearly aren't being so affected and just don't want to "look bad" and spit out the TWAW mantra without thinking. As you obviously know as a bisexual person, a bisexual person enjoy both sexes, and I realised in my opinion they tend to become more blind and not really realise how harmful this all thing is being to women AND homosexuals. Because for bisexual people it's obviously "easier" to not care if "a woman has a penis" or "a man has a vagina". I'm not saying ALL bi people are like this, and I DO know there are also bi people being called transphobic for this and YOU are the prime example (lmao) that not all bi people are like this. But let me just say it was quite laughable to TRY to explain to BI people what it's like to ONLY like ONE sex. You have no idea how confused they were, they SIMPLY couldn't comprehend AND I was the bigoted, hateful one. They were confusing everything, for example, sexual attraction with simply finding someone aesthetically pleasing (I can find men attractive but I won't ever find myself sexually attracted to them because I'm a lesbian). To THEM, this was highly confusing lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The same applies to asexual people, they tend to be more "blind" as they don't feel sexual attraction towards no one at all. So this is to say - do not be too hard on yourself and well, just to let you know that perhaps you haven't thought about this as a bi person and it might help you not to take it so personal. And I really hope none of this has come as offensive to you, and I truly admire bi people who are sensitive on these issues, and everyone else of course.

[–]Greykittymomma 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, it really bothers me when people say this and I am bi. I support my gay and lesbian friends. To say they have "genital preference" is such a basic and wrong way of understanding homosexuality. Men and women are different and I appreciate different things in them.

Trans folks can be attractive but not wanting to have a relationship sexual or otherwise with them should be accepted. Otherwise you are pretty much saying it's ok for trans folks to rape us because they are entitled to sex from whoever they want. Just doesn't work that way.

[–]Criticalofgender[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's the fucking argument that they are super oppressed that we shouldn't speak out, it makes me sick. I'm always trying to be "kind" and don't want anyone to feel left out, but that doesn't mean that I'm not critical of what are you saying. Any reason to not jabe sex with someone is valid and should be taken seriously.

[–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes to all this! Thanks 💖💖💖

[–]Criticalofgender[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Hi! Thank you so much for your comment! I noticed it as well! Monosexuals tend to agree more with the gender critical part! Man, it really affected me because I'm really hard on myself because of liking girls, and now that just because a man calls himself a woman as it is the same and ugh, I can't. I talked to my bisexual friend and apologized for hurting my feelings, but dude, I'm just remembering some parts of the discussion when they told me that I didn't believe in trans people (lol), when I said that trans women are still men. Anyways, I put up a good fight till the end, but I wished I wouldn't have reacted so emotionally, although it was the only time when they took me seriously!

[–]SanityIsGC 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

First of all your emotionality may have been a much needed wake up call to your friends who seemed to have drifted off to ideological LaLaLand. Transgenderism is literally a fake world so to have someone act with real emotion must have been a shock. What I would be interested knowing is how many of those people criticising you have sex with transgendered partners? How many actually walk the walk and not just talk the talk?

[–]oofreesouloo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's totally fine, don't be too hard on yourself. You were very brave :)

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Jesus. At least you now know who your true friends are. Pushing a lesbian to like dick means that person is no friend to a lesbian

[–]oofreesouloo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They weren't my friends. It was an online debate. I was in a forum for academic purposes, and these ~queer~ people started talking sh*t about J K Rowling and I decided to talk.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, I see. They're all over discussion forums. I was surprised when I was reading another website message board that a bunch of trans people overtook some old gaming platform until it was essentially dead.

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Bisexual means attracted to both sexes, not attracted to some hodgepodge surgical mutation. Just because both penis and vagina are appealing, it does not mean you want a "woman" with a penis. How did this insanity start? Your "penis repulsion is not normal"???? Trying to force people to be sexually attracted to something they are not attracted to --- now that is repulsive!

[–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a lesbian, so no penis ever 🤣 Yes, it was very shocking, they sounded like homophobes. The shocking part is that they were from the LGB(T) community

[–]ThisReality 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's hard to speak your own truth and see people you care about turn against you. That doesn't make you wrong. Maybe some of them will think about what you said and be curious enough to talk more about it. Hang in there. Some of them may agree with you and not feel courageous enough to say so in front of a group, at least not yet.

[–]Criticalofgender[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've convinced a friend of mine not a long time ago! But it's not in that group of friends. Fucking sucks because they were always telling me that we didn't know their chromosomes to know if they were actual women. Ugh, dude, even if you present yourself as the other sex and you're "convincing", doesn't change your biology, and it's ok! There's nothing wrong to be one sex or another! And it's not offensive!

[–]Seahorse 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Man you need new friends.

I don't have people like this in my life or they're at a minimum. All my friends completely agree with me or can at least meet me halfway.

I consider myself lucky I guess!

[–]Criticalofgender[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That sounds great! But I don't have many friends and it's quite sad to admit, but it is like that. I just wish people were a little more critical, you know, to question these things. They confused sex and gender all the time, and that gender is based on sex and stereotypes, it sucked.

[–]motionlessoracle 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

That sounds rough, like surviving a Twitter pile on in real life.

[–]Criticalofgender[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was really like that! But well, they were praising my other friend for the way she talked and it was really disheartening. I guess I'm not a good talker lol

[–]Maeven 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They probably wouldn't have been sympathetic no matter how well you spoke. It's not your fault they don't listen. They've been conditioned not to.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are a Hero of Justice. You don't need external validation.

[–]_UngodlyFruit_ 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You stood up for your principles, knowing that others would object and give you a hard time. That alone takes a lot of courage. I'm sorry you had to deal with that though. I think a lot of otherwise good people have been swept up into believing this madness, because to not do so currently has very negative social implications.

Gender ideology and Intersectionality function like a sort of fundamentalist religion, which makes it very hard to have a reasonable, fair debate with serious believers. It's like trying to debate the existence of God with a born again Christian.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Random thought: If you are young— I think a lot of younger women might not totally grasp how misogynistic society is until they’ve experienced it in the workplace, in regular adult society, in long term relationships. The exception might include those who experience sexual assault or child abuse. Your “friends” might not have experienced enough misogyny first hand to realize how systematic and widespread it is. Young women more readily embrace internalized misogyny and might falsely believe men are “nice people” because men constantly hit on them all the time— pretend to be nice so they can get into your pants. I could be wrong, but I remember being like that when I was younger. It took bad experiences to make me realize how fully universal it is for women to get the shit end of the stick... that’s why I think so many young women blindly embrace kink culture and all of it’s bizarre ideological trappings. In time they may “get” where you’re coming from.

[–]Kai_Decadence 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm so sorry that happened but I do get where you're coming from. When I came out as GC last year, I lost a few friends and even when one of them tried to debate me and I was able to stump them when I asked them to define man and define woman without using social stereotypes, it just ended up with me getting blocked. Point is I totally get how you feel because it really does feel like it's yourself against the world when it comes to this and it's worse when they don't even try to think critically about it.

[–]Criticalofgender[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you so much for your reply! Absolutely, lately I've seen a lot of posts and stories of people who have lost friends because of these kind of topics, but even with facts or research, if they don't want to listen, they won't, it's not our fault. I'm sorry it has happened to you as well and if you need anything, you can contact me!

[–]Kai_Decadence 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that's the thing that's really aggravating about this all. You present them with facts or documented research, they will just ignore it and if you show them the negative things that have been happening towards women by linking them to sites like "WomenAreHuman" or "This Never Happens" or "It's a Fetish" (back when it was still on Reddit), they just disregard it and say "Oh it's just a small minority" or "You're just cherry-picking". It's just so annoying that these people fail to use critical thinking and observation to connect the dots.

And thanks, I'll keep that in mind!