I believe there's a divide between radfems and gender critics who aren't necessarily radfem

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

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[–][deleted]  (17 children)

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    [–]Pomegranate 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

    The full quote is

    So I can be anti-trans/porn/prostitution, but because I prioritize a man in my personal life, I'm not a real radfem

    I wasn't saying I'm not a real radfem, I'm asking if that's what you think simply because I'm in a heterosexual relationship. Don't take half of my quote out of context and pretend I'm saying something I'm not.

    Edit: I'll make it simple. Do you or do you not believe heterosexual women can be radical feminists?

    [–][deleted]  (15 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Pomegranate 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

      It's not possible to date or marry someone without prioritizing them. Do you believe heterosexual women should be abstinent? Do you think heterosexual sex is bad?

      Edit: Also, saying radfems can be heterosexual but they can't have BFs or husbands means you don't really believe they can be heterosexual. Having BFs and husbands is kinda the entire idea/point of being heterosexual.

      [–]Irascible-harpy 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Fuzzyfuzz considers women's separatism to be an essential part of radical feminism. You do not. This is not an uncommon debate within branches of radical feminism.

      [–]Pomegranate 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      I was on Reddit's gender critical forum for at least 3 years and never heard an argument this extreme, telling me I can't be heterosexual and also radfem.

      [–]Irascible-harpy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I understand your perspective and any frustration you might have from fuzzyfuzz's tone. I understand where women's separatists are coming from, but I don't personally adhere to it.

      [–]missdaisycan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      I disagee. (Hetero)sexuality is what a person finds attractive/arousing, it doesn't necessitate engaging in relationships. I am a Radfem who hasn't been in a relationship with a male for over 19 years. I am quite sexual, thank you, but the few times I've "hit it & quit it" just reinforced my own perception that any pairing with a male is to his benefit, and at my cost. In so many ways.

      [–]Pomegranate 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

      Casual sex is a type of "engaging" even if it's not a relationship, you're still acting out your heterosexual desires, you said you're sexual, I assume you mean sexual with men, so I don't see a difference. Having heterosexual sex is the point/idea of being heterosexual, not just being attracted and never acting on it. A relationship is just the manner that I personally choose to engage. If I decided that I never wanted to have sex with a man ever again I would consider myself asexual.

      [–]missdaisycan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Then you and I shall agree to disagree, yes?

      [–]Pomegranate 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      I thought you wanted to discuss, you replied to my comment saying you disagreed and why, and I was just returning with my own thoughts. Yes, of course you can disagree and move on. Sorry if I offended.

      [–]missdaisycan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      And I appreciate hearing your perspective, that is part of why I spoke up. I am in no way offended, I simply felt our discussion had reached its end. :)

      [–]Pomegranate 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Okay, I'm glad. Have a good night!

      [–]Moirawr 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      To be blunt, yeah. Think of it this way, you wouldn’t say it’s a radical feminist position to encourage women to marry and sleep with men. But most people are hetero, and most women aren’t raised radical feminist so... it’s uncomfortable but she’s right. I’ve been in and out of the community for 7 years, I have a bf, it’s not like you can’t still participate or do activism that is in line with radical feminism. You just can’t say dating/marrying men is a radical feminist position. Is labeling yourself and being able to date men at the same time more important than having a consistent radfem theory? I took it personally at first but it is what it is.

      [–]Pomegranate 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      I'm not encouraging women to date and sleep with men or saying that's what radical feminism is. I just don't agree that being heterosexual is inconsistent with being a radical feminist. If I participate in radical feminism, do activism that is in line with radical feminism, agree with most all of the ideas and arguments, then I'm a radical feminist...unless I happen to be dating a man? Doesn't make sense to me. I never said dating a man is a radical feminist position or has anything to do with radical feminism. I just am one and happen to be dating a man, because I'm heterosexual so what else am I supposed to do besides be alone forever?

      Is labeling yourself and being able to date men at the same time more important than having a consistent radfem theory?

      Could you rephrase this question, please? I don't understand.

      [–]Moirawr 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      Sure. Say someone believes vegans are right about everything, they donate and do activism for it, but they also consume animal products regularly. Is that person a vegan? I think most people would say no. I also think some people would say that persons activism would make more impact than their personal choices and is still a good thing. Still wouldn’t say that person is a vegan though. No ones saying you have to be alone forever, it’s not about you, it’s about women as a class would be better off if we did not actively participate in perpetuating patriarchy via marriage, children, domestic labor, etc. so same as you cant be a vegan and eat meat, you can’t be a radical feminist and marry men, or be pro prostitution, or be anti abortion, etc. but that’s just my opinion on things, I think the vegan activist who is not personally vegan is better than zero awareness at all and that person doesn’t need to become pure or whatever, it’s difficult or sometimes impossible to perfectly follow any ideology to the letter.

      [–]Pomegranate 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      "I'm a radical feminist and just happen to be dating a man" is as stupid to you as "I'm a vegan I just happen to eat meat" I don't know what to say, haha, that's so funny. That's such a funny metaphor. I appreciate your response, I definitely have a wider understanding of your position even if I do disagree. I have no argument though, I understand how you could feel that way. I just don't feel like I have much of a choice. I guess it would be like really wanting to be a vegan but suffering from a terrible disorder where you had to eat meat or you'd die.

      [–]Moirawr 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      No problem, it’s how I understand it at least, maybe someone else could explain better. I realize it’s not the best but that’s I think the quickest/simplest way I can could explain it. Like I said I have a bf so I have what I would call “radical feminist views” and I don’t feel limited or bad about that. All it means practically speaking is I wouldn’t try to say having a bf is in any way radfem, I can still contribute in all other discussions as long as I’m not claiming my bf is special or our relationship is different and totally feminist, “not my Nigel” as it’s called. Lol yes, if we take it further the vegan eating meat is what it would be like! Except you wouldn’t die but that’s the problem with analogies, they only go so far. It’s true relationships are extremely important to humans as social animals, ideally a heterosexual radical feminist would have close friends/family that would replace that need, but we are stumbling further into my personal interpretation and as another user said it’s an ongoing argument, so I don’t mind agreeing to disagree.