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[–]Spikygrasspod 35 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 0 fun36 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Beautiful and brave, just not women. Men. And that's okay. Also, arguments are valid in which the conclusion follows from the premises. I don't know what valid humans are though.

[–]bellatrixbells 37 insightful - 6 fun37 insightful - 5 fun38 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

I think it's unfair to call them men. They are males, and therefore not women, that is something I'll get behind, but I think calling them trans women instead is a very fair compromise. I mean, given that they go through everyday life as women and are treated as such by most of the people they encounter, they are in fact somewhere in between. They should not take our place, and neither of them wants to, but I think it's kind of in bad faith to just call them men.

[–]madderthanhell 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"...given that they go through everyday life as women and are treated as such by most of the people they encounter."... A vanishingly small number of TIMs actually "pass" as women. As such they are treated not as women but as what they are: men who LARP* as women, often as the most sexually objectified version of 'woman' they can put together. Aggressively requiring others to uphold their fantasy/delusion as 'real' exemplifies bad faith. edit *LARP = live action role play

[–]bellatrixbells 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well I don't know, I mean we were talking about two specific individuals who are generally being quite reasonable in their requests. I have heard claims that they were in fact being misogynistic and I can kind of get where those claims are coming from, but I don't necessarily agree. Both are quite open to hearing opposing opinions too and they DO stand for the rights of women to speak among themselves. And they are both of the opinion that someone with a penis should stay out of women's intimate spaces. That accounts for something.
And I understand where you're coming from with the LARP thing, but my point was I'm fairly sure a lot of people out there know neither of them and probably take them for women and therefore treat them the same way they would treat one of us. I mean, I myself struggle at times to remember that White is male, and I'm watching a video where they're actively reminding me constantly.
You're free to disagree, and this is the best platform to do so, but I personally don't have much of a problem with either of them, even though Blaire does go by a version of femininity that I do not like myself. It is however very coherent with the kind of femininity you will encounter on actual females in the LA culture where this person is evolving so I'm not sure it would be fair to blame it on them.