Personality Disorders and Personality Profiles in a Sample of Transgender Individuals Requesting Gender-Affirming Treatments

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[–]_UngodlyFruit_[S] 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

"Nearly 50% of participants showed at least one PD diagnosis, with no gender differences in prevalence. Borderline PD was the most frequent diagnosis in the overall sample. Self-report measures provide a less maladaptive profile of personality functioning than the clinician-based categorical assessment."

Can't say I'm surprised!

[–]MarkTwainiac 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Yes, 50% of the trans population had "at least one PD diagnosis" whereas the paper says 15% of the entire population have PDs. Makes me wonder if you subtracted all the attention-seekers now claiming to be trans and gender speshul from the rest of the population who don't believe in gender identity and ideology, what the % of PDs amongst the "non-trans" population would turn out to be.

My own sense is that gender ideology is a magnet for - and an invention, social engineering project of and political movement of - people of both sexes with Cluster B PDs who want to remake the entire world in their own image and force the rest of the population not just to meet their demands and proclivities, but to center them. However, there do seem to be sex differences.

Amongst males, cross-sex identity often seems to be an expression and outgrowth of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or aspects of it, combined with a whole lot of unbridled male sexual fetishism. However, I think NPD traits and the full-blown disorder are actually under-diagnosed in males cuz a lot of traits that would be considered indicative of clinical narcissism and NPD in female people are seen as normal aspects of boys men with a healthy, well-developed sense of masculinity and males "rightful place" as superior beings meant to enjoy highest status in the world.

By contrast, my impression is that amongst females Borderline Personality Disorder is way over-diagnosed. The characteristics that clinicians often perceive as indicative of BPD in women are commonly tied up with coping responses to sex abuse and other traumas as well as being constantly subjected to misogyny, second-class status and belittlement. When females adopt a trans identity, it's often as a response to these same factors, along with confusion about sexuality and internalized homophobia. Which is one of the reasons a lot of us think the entire concept of Bordlerline Personality Disorder is sexist and suspect.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

people of both sexes with Cluster B PDs who want to remake the entire world in their own image and force the rest of the population not just to meet their demands and proclivities, but to center them.

This has been exactly my experience, in microcosm.

No amount of empathy, hormones, conformation surgery is enough, and the entire family becomes enmeshed in narcissistic/borderline care-taking.

[–]FediNetizen 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

However, I think NPD traits and the full-blown disorder are actually under-diagnosed in males cuz a lot of traits that would be considered indicative of clinical narcissism and NPD in female people are seen as normal aspects of boys men with a healthy, well-developed sense of masculinity and males "rightful place" as superior beings meant to enjoy highest status in the world.

Men already make up the majority of those diagnosed with NPD and some of the diagnostic criteria swing more towards what tends to drive men (success and power) anyways. However, that doesn't mean there's anything sexist about the concept of NPD.

Which is one of the reasons a lot of us think the entire concept of Bordlerline Personality Disorder is sexist and suspect.

Something like 75% of Psychology PhDs are women. Last year, the APA released "guidance" that stated that traditional masculinity ("anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence", per their own guidellines) is harmful. If there is any sexism in the field of psychology, it's against men.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Link to the APA guidance to which you are referring would be much appreciated.

Or could it possibly be that you mean this document that doesn't seem to support your claims: https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf

[–]FediNetizen 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Or could it possibly be that you don't mean this document that doesn't seem to support your claims

It could possibly be that. Or it could be that you should have looked at it a little more closely. From the definitions page, which I pulled from word for word:

Masculinity Ideology: ...standards that have held sway over large segments of the population, including: anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence. *These have been collectively referred to as traditional masculinity ideology** (Levant & Richmond, 2007)*

Now peruse through the document and check their references to traditional masculinity. Basically everything they have to say about it is negative. If you think I'm bullshitting, feel free to actually read what they have to say about it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have looked through this document in search of evidence supporting your claim that "everything they have to say" about "traditional masculinity" "is a negative." But somehow I missed it. Please quote and c&p the particular passages to which you are referring. Cuz my feeble "lady brain" can't discern them. Thank you

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have a personal theory that in a society built on power dynamics of dominance/submission, all those who end up in a dominant role are at high risk of developing narcissism or narcissistic traits towards those in the submissive roles.

It's also important to note that BPD is literally a fear of being abandoned. I believe the modern transmovement with their cult-like hugboxing, community and the perceived social elevation would be a magnet for those suffering from that.

[–]catoboros 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Complex PTSD is an emerging diagnosis (not yet in DSM) that may be a more accurate description of some abuse survivors.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

NPD is not what most of you think it is just because you see "narcissist" does not mean you understand what this means.

I can't fathom someone with NPD identifying as a different gender publicly because they think they are flawless the way they are. Even the notion of being associated with a mental disorder like gender disphoria or having to have plastic surgery to drastically change their body sounds extremely out of place for someone with NPD. Even worse, having to see a therapist or doctors to fix them that is just not what NPD's do. NPD's do not do self reflection ever.

I can see the study where NPD was only 5% being most correct. Men are diagnosed more as NPD and it is very hard to mistake "healthy, well-developed sense of masculinity" with someone with NPD. There is a huge difference. So I have no clue wtf you are on about there.

Looking into the study the only study that reports a high number of NPD cases is a study based on self report questionnaire in Iran where sex resignment is mandatory for homosexual people so there are a lot of issues with that one.

I do see people with NPD being TRA's though as the virtue signalling without having to put effort in it and yet getting instant gratification sounds just like NPD heaven.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No, NPD is indeed common in trans people. One of the clinical indicators for NPD is actually envy.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

your comment makes no sense. Just because someone is envious does not turn them trans.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You just said people with NPD do not become envious of other people because they think they're already perfect. I said that you are clinically speaking wrong.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never said they were never envious. It's just that their envy is not about other people but what those people have. They don't consider others as human. You don't get envious of a chair or a spoon.

They want things that are important to them but they will twist anything so it works for them. Like I said I see them being TRA's. I also see them pushing their children into being trans as it will get them attention without too much effort.

Them sitting in a doctors chair telling someone they are not happy with their body or their life? Nah do not see that happening.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah and what those other people have is opposite-sexed bodies, in the case of trans people.

It is something that is documented, so whether you "see it" or not is besides the point

[–]IridescentAnaconda 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Borderline PD was the most frequent diagnosis in the overall sample.

What. A. Shock.

"I'll kill myself you don't give me exactly what I want, right now!"

[–]Bisexualmetalhead 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi! I have BPD and yeah, I'm not surprised by this at all. Literally the first symptom of BPD listed in the DSM is "markedly disturbed sense of identity". I saw a video a while ago of a therapist on Youtube (I forget her name, or else I would link it) where she described this symptom in detail as the person constantly changing core beliefs and values, but she specifically mentioned gender identity being a big one. She added a disclaimer saying "I'm not saying that everyone with gender identity struggles has BPD" but it still made me question comorbidities behind BPD and the spike in "gender dysphoria" diagnoses.

Tbh, there was a brief period in my own life where I was questioning some things about my own gender, mostly because I do have some "masculine" interests and body image issues, but eventually, I came to realize that my reasons for questioning were more so related to this symptom of BPD, as well as my own frustration with being a female in this sexist world. Couple that with me taking on masculine interests in order to attract more guys and buying into some of the TRA rhetoric and I could see why other young girls in my situation may be confused. My body image issues also aren't related to dysphoria because if anything, I feel like I don't look "feminine" enough. I don't have an hourglass shape or a cute pointy nose, so I kind of just thought that maybe I should be a boy so I could look better, if that makes sense? The TRAs keep saying "transitioning made my life soooo much better! All my depression is gone! Surgery was the best decision I ever made!" and I have a real problem with that "magic potion cure all" type of rhetoric because so many impressionable girls will hear that and think that surgery is the answer because actual therapy to confront BPD symptoms requires a lot of hard work and patience (I've been in treatment for going on 7 years and I still have trouble controlling my symptoms). If someone came along and told me that one surgery will change my life and make my BPD disappear, why would I not take it? Of course, we all know that is not the case.

Also, I have a friend who has a trans sister (female to male or TIF) and we were talking about this in detail once because his mom has an undiagnosed cluster B PD (they suspect NPD or BPD but she refuses treatment so they'll probably never know at this point). Nevertheless, as children, they all suffered from trauma because of the mom and he said that his sister has some "BPD traits". He has a theory that his sister is trans because their mother ruined them so badly that it caused her to reject any and everything feminine so as not to be associated with their mom or to avoid repeating their mom's behavior/mistakes. Overall, I really wish there were more studies on this topic. I'm in school to hopefully go into the mental health field and I specifically want to research and work with BPD. Unfortunately, researching this topic would probably be labeled as "transphobic" because the TRAs know that it would expose some harsh realities.

[–]sisterinsomnia 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

An earlier Iranian study (no idea if it, or any of these studies, is methodologically sound) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/

I began searching for these because it looked like there was a more-than-expected number of narcissists among the online trans activists, though the activists might just be ordinary wokebeards.

[–]_UngodlyFruit_[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect that PD rates are higher in these SJW-type activists as well. This article discusses a paper that was published recently which details several different studies done on this exact subject. There's a link to the full paper in the article. https://reason.com/2020/07/07/narcissists-psychopaths-and-manipulators-are-more-likely-to-engage-in-virtuous-victim-signaling-says-study/

[–]kwallio 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My thought is that npd individuals would be drawn to transition or to trans rights activism because of the consequence free existence of most of them. The most extreme behavior is excused and coddled, which is a dream for most narcs. Gotta get that all important supply!

[–]_UngodlyFruit_[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree! Plus they get to whine about how oppressed they are, and everyone is expected to put up with it. Narcs LOVE being perceived as the victim.

[–]catoboros 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No mention of autism spectrum, which would have been nice (ASD is overrepresented in the trans community). Nor complex PTSD (not in DSM-5), which is a differential diagnosis for borderline, and also commonly found in abuse survivors..

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good to see this in circulation. Thanks!

[–]swordinthestream 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

lol, the study doesn’t compare transgender “women” with normal men, it only compares them to normal women. It also concludes that it’s all explained by the “Minority Stress Model”.

Of course, because any research into what’s actually going on with the psychology of trans people is shut down.

[–]Seahorse 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I've always thought this.

They are a group that has a huge level of mental health issues. They love to claim it's "transphobia" but personality disorders develop very early in life as coping mechanism.

And of course therapy is why is needed for these individuals but we just throwing hormones at them and plastic surgery.

[–]DottyPI 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“The criteria for inclusion in the study were a diagnosis of GD (according to DSM-5) [10], and absence of any current major psychiatric disorders (psychotic disorders, neurocognitive disorders, and mental retardation).” Interesting.