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[–]GConly 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Black people in America aren't killed disproportionately once you take into account the fact that they have much higher offending and arrest level that puts them into contact with police way more often.

On a per arrest/encounter incident mortality isn't different.

If someone feels like claiming the higher arrests are down to racism via stop and search: they commit homicides and rapes about seven times the non Hispanic white rate Police racism has virtually nothing to do with their higher arrest rates.

[–]critical_of_WR 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

maybe you are referring to Black men, but this video is referring to Black women. You should also know that talking about proportions without putting a logistic model on it and controlling for other factors/variables makes you look like an amateur. You should not speak without a properly nuanced perspective.

This is why I call myself a Black woman, and not a "Person of Colour," because I noticed many White Americans use other minorities when trying to shame Black people. Except when they do it usually they have a bit more of an intelligent argument than "look at the proportions when you adjust for population size." I should point out that I am not even an African American, I am an African that was born in America. I came from an upper class family from a country in West Africa, and my ethnic group outperforms the average American. Thereby suggesting that there are many factors that influence crime rate, and it isn't exclusive to race.

[–]GConly 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

you should also know that talking about proportions without putting a logistic model on it and controlling for other factors

I did. I controlled for the higher level of arrests, and population size.

Controlling for relative population size black males get killed by the police 2.5 times more often. They get arrested about five times more often, also relative to population size. This means that there's no way they have a higher death rate per police incident.

It's just this isn't a hard science sub and I didn't feel the need to go through the details.

We have the same situation in the UK. It appears our black citizens get killed more often than they should, twice the rate, but this also vanishes when you look at the death rate per hour in custody and then it's a lower death rate. This stat is around in a UK gov paper somewhere.

The black DIC higher death rate issue is caused by greater time in custody, nothing else. Same in America.

came from an upper class family from a country in West Africa, and my ethnic group outperforms the average American.

I'm assuming that would be Nigeria or Ghana, I'm familiar with the data. It's part of the argument that systemic racism against black Americans is not a factor in income disparity. You can't have systemic racism against black Americans be the cause if some black groups outperform white people.

We also have the same thing in the UK with west Africans doing better. The local grammar schools have a lot of West African kids, but almost no Afro Carribean.

[–]Aquadog 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Are you controlling for poverty? African-Americans are much more likely to be experiencing poverty than any other racial group.

I'm also going to add that black women are the most educated group in the US, yet still have a large income disparity compared to white women.

[–]GConly 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Poverty is non relevant in this equation.

The equation is "hours each race spends in custody Vs number number of deaths", adjusted per capita.

We are looking for racism in police deaths. We aren't discussing why they are being arrested or offending. That's a different discussion.

It's also a myth that black women are the most educated group. That idea came from a misunderstanding.

https://ibb.co/3BQjgjt

23% of black women got degrees Vs 38% for white women.

Just over half of 1% of Black women have PhDs, compared with just over 1% of White women – and almost 3% of Asian/PI women. White women are almost twice as likely to have a PhD and Black women, Asian/PI women are more than 5-times as likely.

[–]critical_of_WR 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The thing is I am a scientist so when you present me statistics about the rates without any model to adjust for other variables then your argument is not substantiated. You should recognize your audience if you want to convince someone that your logic has validity, so I don't think stating that this isn't a science hub and you don't need to go through the details is inappropriate. How does that make you any different from a TIM who would present half baked arguments and call it science?

And my coming from a more successful Black racial group is not taken as evidence of Black American's failure. It can be taken as evidence that your skin colour is not what makes you a failure or a success, as the average of any race regresses to the mean. There is something else that makes people from my ethnic group more privileged than the typical Black American or Black UK citizen. You may call it helicopter parenting and there is a little bit of that. That isn't the entire picture though. A lot of the families come from upper class families, already the most educated of their class, and often the richest citizens of their country. This is something that is seen within international students of all demographics. They will always succeed better than the domestic students or second generation students of any race within Western world. We did not adjust for other variables such as poverty, lack of resources, poor opportunities. These things matter, and I know this as someone that works heavily in data science as well as outreach programs for students that are underprivileged from all racial backgrounds. All I am saying is that you take your outsider information, play the race card based on your context of why things are the status quo. It is one side of the story. It is not complete.