The detransitioners: what happens when trans men want to be women again?

submitted by questioningtw from (thetimes.co.uk)

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[–]shveya 35 insightful - 4 fun35 insightful - 3 fun36 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

We will be seeing loads of women like this within the next 10 years. Men too, but I’m not as worried about them.

[–][deleted] 28 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I am already seeing them everywhere. Search on youtube "detransition", there are hundreds of results. 99% of them are women who detransitioned. And these are only the people brave enough to put themselves out in public, I'm sure there are thousands more people like this. I believe the change will come much faster than 10 years from now.

[–]shveya 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I've been seeing them around a lot too. It's really sad seeing young women on the detrans subreddit lamenting the loss of their formally healthy hair and breasts. Looks are just the tip of the iceberg of course. I hope the change comes much faster than 10 years too, this circus has been hurting too many people since it got trendy.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I read an article a few years back that studied influencing perspectives online - that only 25% of the population saying a message was needed for people to switch over (the study also pointed out people were unable to tell the difference between bots and actual people), but I hope that the more brave detransitioners speak up will open the floodgates to those still to uncomfortable to talk about it.

[–]Lucretia 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Would you happen to have the reference for that? I would love to read the paper, I believe it.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think it was this one

[–]Lucretia 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you so much! :)

[–]questioningtw[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it bothers me how a lot of trans people are coming out and acting like detransition is unbelievably rare. This probably was true when they had actual gatekeeping, but with this new model they have, where it is informed consent and affirmation therapy? Yeah, you are going to see a lot more regretters. One of the criteria for gender dysphoria youth is playing with the wrong toys basically. That shoud NEVER be criteria for being trans.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah, it was very rare in the days when it wasn't the cool new trend. Now trans is the new goth.

[–]writerlylesbian 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think this is probably the article that, when about to be released, made the BBC take down some of their links to Mermaids et al.

[–]FlickingMarvellous 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It looks like that was just a glitch: they’re back again now.

[–]writerlylesbian 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, nice to have the evidence there, I guess. Will make the denials harder.

[–]luckystar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Is that right? I only found one empty page and then one page with a few links, none to Mermaids: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1nYWPTdMtKStFL2ztx1SV11/information-and-support-lgbt-issues

[–]FlickingMarvellous 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, interesting. Maybe left hand - right hand issues?

[–]questioningtw[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mermaids has no business trying to get articles removed. People have the right to talk about detransitioners. There was some blogger in a Seattle rag who posted about some people that regretted transitioning and she got so much hate for it. I don't get it, you must be incredibly insecure about your identity if an article about detransitioners actually triggers you.

[–]blackrainbow 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Beautiful article, I really felt bad for Debbie. She says there are a lot more ftms who regret transition but they don't have the balls to admit it in public. The regret percentage should be waaay higher.

[–]questioningtw[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i do too. I used to post on Femineste, which was a fairly old feminist blog(it doesn't even exist anymore sadly) and one of the bloggers there actually transitioned to male then transitioned back. She was really nice and harbored no resentment toward trans people at all, but wished there wasn't so much cheerleading in the trans groups she was in.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I'm glad this is being talked about more and more. It seems to be getting into the mainstream discussion. Are we nearing a turning point?

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I wonder when we will see children who transitioned so young suing the people who pressured them...?

[–]GConly 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Give it another three years for it to begin visibly (they need to grow up a bit) and about five for it to hit mass levels.

[–]jet199 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Walt Heyer says he already knows loads of people who have successfully sued but they are all made to sign away their right to talk about it to get the money.

Secrecy is a big problem.

[–]Realwoman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think it's already happening in the UK

[–]NecessaryScene1 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not suing, but applications for judicial review:

First case:
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/protect-children/
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3881347-Keira-Bell-from-Tavi-case-here-AMA

Keira's new case:
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/challenge-innate-gender/

[–]jet199 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And here's the newsnight report on the Tavistock clinic. https://youtu.be/zTRnrp9pXHY

They literally told doctors not to worry because if they got sued it would be the clinic they sued not the staff.

[–]luckystar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This report is chilling. They are prescribing medication after 1 hour of consultation. Even assuming that children can have gender dysphoria and that these medications are an appropriate treatment (and that's a big "if"), there is NO WAY one hour is enough time to fully analyze the child's needs. It reminds me of how antidepressants and stimulants (like Ritalin) are overprescribed by overloaded psychs dealing with patients/parents that want a quick miracle fix. But it's so much worse because the blockers and hormones have permanent effects on the body in a way the antidepressants don't.

[–]Overdrive 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's getting into discussion because it's a fast growing phenomenon. We have no choice but to discuss it.

I feel like the turning point was about 500 miles ago, though...

[–]Literallyawoman 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m worried for my transman family member-very young, left an abusive home at 18, tons of mental health issues, self harm and depression, absolutely toxic person towards me or anyone in the family who tries to help them or be supportive unless we hand them $$$. I stopped paying their phone and rent bills after they quit a job due to there not being gender neutral bathrooms and they’re currently living in absolute squalor, bed bugs and broken appliances and all with their gender fluid special snowflake loser friends. But that’s their “family” now they told me angrily.

I did the same thing too-left an abusive home at 18, thought I could rebuild my own family by hanging out with lecherous people who only connected through playing the oppression olympics and using each other to get drugs. I didn’t realize being young and dumb and broken I’d only ever attract shitty people and push smart and successful ones away by wearing my damage like a badge of honor.

I was suicidal and still struggle with depression, but I don’t surround myself with people who glorify it anymore. My past addiction and mental health issues don’t define me just like being trans and gender fluid doesn’t define my family member. It’s escapism and self harm.

Once I got my foot in the door at a good job they(my WOKE friends) became violent and accusatory at me for “using my privilege to work the system” and I fear if my trans family member ever starts seeing themselves as a capable young person and not just a victim the same will happen to them. I only hope they won’t let their bucket of crabs friendgroup tear them down.

[–]critical_of_WR 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

"I started reading more about feminism and understanding things differently. It’s hard to grow up and not really see other masculine lesbian women. I had put the problem inside myself, when actually it is with how the outside world sees women who don’t conform to feminine norms. I just wanted to be human, neutral, myself. I felt as if the only way I could be myself was to look like a guy."

This is incredibly sad. I feel a lot of TIMs and TIFs are non-gender conforming gay men or gay women who feel ashamed of the fact that they did not conform to heterosexual standards of attractiveness or sexual attractions, so the solution is to be as close to a conventionally attractive member of the opposite sex to cure the dysphoria. It's probably why so many TIMs are concerned with mainstream beauty of wide hips, and big breasts. The problem is after the transition they realize they still aren't men and/or women, and the dysphoria is not truly cured. It is incredibly sad.

[–]begonia_skies 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is the real problem, if we really drill down, with the trans movement, is that it is based on misogyny and gender roles that are bullshit. Women don't want to be women anymore because they believe their lives will be easier, better even as men. And many MtFs are MRAs that believe being a woman is life on "easy setting" and women get hand-fed value and sex (which is usually what MtFs are after). It's just bullshit through and through, how they can't see the whole premise is a joke is beyond me.

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not even just lesbians, but a lot of straight girls want out of this pornified conception of womanhood. What girls are being taught in porn and in pop culture is that women are submissive fuck toys for men to abuse, that we're lesser and weaker and the most important thing about us is how feminine and "fuckable" we are.

[–]questioningtw[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh absolutely. I actually think in some ways media was LESS sexist back in say the 70s, 80s and 90s . Then you had Ripley, Sarah Conner, Ellie from Jurassic Park, Mulan a whole lot of women that were handy....now it seems like there is a backlash to that. People seem to WANT people to be in their restricted boxes. And i wish the porn industry would die in a fire. They have done so much damage to women.

[–]critical_of_WR 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That and women who may feel that they never had a chance to perform to the pornified version of womanhood. Maybe they didn't have big breasts or blond hair, etc. They may have recognized they were women, but a particular type of womanhood is weaponized and if you don't conform then you have no access to power. Might as well do the next best thing and become a man who has real societal power. Sad.

[–]questioningtw[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I sometimes blame the media coming out with articles by "scientists" talking about how men and women really do have different brains and that different sexed behaviors have been seen in monkeys and apes. They don't mention that humans are way more complicated then monkeys and apes and people's behavior varies by their temperament and the situation they are in. I hate also modern society seems to have this weird obsession with identity and being your true self. It leads to selfishness and narcissism and you will always be you, no matter how much you run away from it.

[–]critical_of_WR 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The funny thing is while the media may endorse such a thing, a real scientist would not. There thing is there is no real statistical evidence that shows there is such a thing as a male or female brains. Any neuroscientist worth their salt would not put their name to such a paper.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Here's an archive link as the article is behind a paywall.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for the link.

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What stands out most to me is how strongly I relate to all of these women. It's really only luck that I didn't find myself in their position. What happened to them could happen to anyone.

[–]sallytomato 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember there was an episode on MTV's True Life about two people that wanted to detransition. Must have been around 10 years ago, I doubt they would show it now. One was a transwoman the other a transman. The transwoman transitioned back to being a gay male. I don't remember about the transman only that they were previously a lesbian and when they transitioned their girlfriend stayed with them. I remember thinking how awkward that must have been for the lesbian girlfriend.

[–]spinningIntelligence 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These women are survivors of medical abuse; I hope they know that they have nothing to be ashamed of. I feel horrified that hack doctors and therapists were able to abuse these women with impunity.