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[–]Badmammajamma 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Men suffer from the patriarchy too. They need to dismantle it from within. It’s not women’s fault that increasing our access to rights makes men feel as though they somehow have less.

[–]meranii 51 insightful - 3 fun51 insightful - 2 fun52 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Men would've dismantled patriarchy a thousand years ago if it weren't a net positive for the vast majority of men. Historically, oppressing 50% of the population automatically made you part of the "winning" half, even if you're a complete loser otherwise.

Men on the internet who speak out against the patriarchy only do so as a way to complain about how their particular personality or lifestyle isn't seen as the most manly and admired in society ("I'm a socially awkward nerd, so unfair! Toxic masculinity hurts me most of all!"), if you actually expect them to ally with women you'll quickly find that any feminism that makes them slightly uncomfortable or offended will be cause for them to abandon the movement.

It's no surprise that men that were nerdy and "weak" growing up and then reach success later in life (tech bros, former media darlings like Joss Whedon and Louis CK) are, while outwardly claiming to support equality, some of the most misogynistic opportunists around.

[–]MezozoicGay 16 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

In my experience with helping feminist organizations and explaining to other men the situation, main problem is almost always that they can't believe that oppression to women is so huge and systematic, no one can accept that so horrible things are happenning, almost no one can accept the fact that just 25 years ago here women were not able to own a land or a company, or open bank account. They always saying "this can not be, why then we not noticing this?". And always shocked. And because all of this looks to them so unbeliavable, they can't fully accept this as truth. I am not sure if I could beileve in this, if I wasn't a direct witness of open oppression on my women friends. People just can't accept how barbaric current state of society trully is, because from our men perspective - everything is pretty civilized and nothing like that is ever happening to us.

[–]tuesday 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thank you for that. You seem like a very decent sort of guy and i appreciate how hard it must be sometimes, to hear women complaining about men in such harsh terms

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Men suffer from the patriarchy too.

Not that you're wrong, but it's kinda like saying "men suffer from each other". Which... yeah. They're self destructive and love competition and hierarchy, but in a system of winners and losers even losers benefit from the subordination of women and are winners in that way. They like it. They'd rather lose to other men than be 'equal' to women.

[–]yishengqingwa666 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, not really. MEN cause MEN's problems. The patriarchy oppresses women, and men like it that way.