all 37 comments

[–]Veneficca 81 insightful - 7 fun81 insightful - 6 fun82 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

I mean... yeah, no shit. They will have to compete with women for jobs as well as men. Be asked to do more housework and childcare at home. Watch their wife walk out the door when they abuse her. Get called into HR for badmouthing a coworker after she turned him down. That's just fairness, but of course they see it only as loss.

[–]Bogos 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Of course it has. That’s why we have to fight for it.

[–]meranii 24 insightful - 9 fun24 insightful - 8 fun25 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

Don't worry, men, if you feel so oppressed by being born as men (not being seen as superior in all areas of public life anymore sure is tough, especially when deep down you just know you actually are better than women), just identify as women. Now the feminists that would've boohooed your MRA whining will have no choice but to admit you are truly victims, and your low opinion of biological women will forevermore be swept under the rug.

[–]LoganBlade 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

no shit lmao

freeing the slaves came at an expense to the slave owners too

[–]crazyangryfemale 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That they whine whenever a small fraction of their resources is shared with the rest of the world shows how little they are “oppressed” under patriarchy. Men created & sustained this system. They have nothing to gain by helping women, only more to lose. I could give a shit if they have a hard time crying. Join the club. It’s no surprise that political affiliation makes no difference when it comes to men’s feelings towards women. With everything these men disagree on, they can at least agree that women deserve less.

My father used to give us small gifts as children as a means of manipulation & bargaining. “I did this for you. How will you show me you’re grateful? You’re not being grateful enough. You don’t appreciate me to my standards. I have to punish you.” Everything we received was a means to an end, a chain that kept us obligated to him somehow, which we unfortunately did not learn until we were older.

I see how men as a class interact with women in the same way. Men often say they “gave” us the right to vote, so we should show some gratitude by not asking for anything else, by being ladies, by being homemakers, being quiet, subservient, dogs. In their minds they desire all the control over their lives, which cannot co-exist with a woman who has all the control over her life, if he’s going to have a family with her. He needs to control her, too. And every woman is only worth her value as a wife or mother in their futures. How do you persuade men to give up control? You don’t...I can’t see majority support for women’s liberation from men. If it does happen all we would need is men in positions of government & legislature to support us. I’m not concerned with anything else.

[–]Lawfulidealist 22 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Men are so weak. "I can't oppress a whole sex as bad anymore as I could! This is oppression! My rights! What about the men!"

[–]Badmammajamma 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Men suffer from the patriarchy too. They need to dismantle it from within. It’s not women’s fault that increasing our access to rights makes men feel as though they somehow have less.

[–]meranii 51 insightful - 3 fun51 insightful - 2 fun52 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Men would've dismantled patriarchy a thousand years ago if it weren't a net positive for the vast majority of men. Historically, oppressing 50% of the population automatically made you part of the "winning" half, even if you're a complete loser otherwise.

Men on the internet who speak out against the patriarchy only do so as a way to complain about how their particular personality or lifestyle isn't seen as the most manly and admired in society ("I'm a socially awkward nerd, so unfair! Toxic masculinity hurts me most of all!"), if you actually expect them to ally with women you'll quickly find that any feminism that makes them slightly uncomfortable or offended will be cause for them to abandon the movement.

It's no surprise that men that were nerdy and "weak" growing up and then reach success later in life (tech bros, former media darlings like Joss Whedon and Louis CK) are, while outwardly claiming to support equality, some of the most misogynistic opportunists around.

[–]MezozoicGay 16 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

In my experience with helping feminist organizations and explaining to other men the situation, main problem is almost always that they can't believe that oppression to women is so huge and systematic, no one can accept that so horrible things are happenning, almost no one can accept the fact that just 25 years ago here women were not able to own a land or a company, or open bank account. They always saying "this can not be, why then we not noticing this?". And always shocked. And because all of this looks to them so unbeliavable, they can't fully accept this as truth. I am not sure if I could beileve in this, if I wasn't a direct witness of open oppression on my women friends. People just can't accept how barbaric current state of society trully is, because from our men perspective - everything is pretty civilized and nothing like that is ever happening to us.

[–]tuesday 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thank you for that. You seem like a very decent sort of guy and i appreciate how hard it must be sometimes, to hear women complaining about men in such harsh terms

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Men suffer from the patriarchy too.

Not that you're wrong, but it's kinda like saying "men suffer from each other". Which... yeah. They're self destructive and love competition and hierarchy, but in a system of winners and losers even losers benefit from the subordination of women and are winners in that way. They like it. They'd rather lose to other men than be 'equal' to women.

[–]yishengqingwa666 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, not really. MEN cause MEN's problems. The patriarchy oppresses women, and men like it that way.

[–]Aquadog 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

It's easy to say that woman are the problem and not big corporations paying people a wage that's been out of whack with inflation since the '80s.

[–]blackrainbow 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If it's not women's it's immigrants' fault

[–]GConly 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Idk about the inflation issue, but the cost of housing is the main issue in the UK screwing people up.

In real terms the cost of a family home is almost 8 times the yearly wage, back in the sixties it was less than three.

Personally I blame selling off the council housing and buy to let mortgages for this.

I'm not overly socialist, but I really support dirt cheap state housing. Keeps house prices and rents low. Even raging capitalists should support this, it means you can pay lower wages.

Private rentals have thier place, I used to move around a lot in my youth, students need housing, those big ass old houses are too big for family homes etc. But the current system is screwing everyone up except landlords.

[–]Smurfette 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Men don’t realize that their privilege comes at the expense of women. White men in particular don’t realize that their privilege comes at the expense of everyone else.

[–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

White women will feel what equality feels like when the privilege of white men and women has to be shared with the rest of the world.

If you or your partner currently earns more than $10.000 a year, you will get to know what equality means.

[–]GConly 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This isn't a zero sum game you know. The increase in wealth in one area isn't necessarily at the expense of another.

In fact increasing the wealth, and productivity, of lower earners decreases spending on welfare by the higher earners. It's an all round win.

You should take a look at Hans Rosling's 'The joy of stats' on YouTube. The income of just about everyone on the planet has been going up for decades. This would not be possible if there was a set amount that got divided up.

There's no reason to think you need to yoink wealth from one group to give it to another. They can make their own given the right environment.

White people don't even have the highest incomes as a group in America. Some African immigrant groups have higher incomes than white average, and East Asian and Indians also out earn them. Bit a blow to the whole white privilege BS.

Why not say "Asian/Jewish women will feel that equality?"

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Indian and Chinese American households have almost double the mean household income of white households. They are also less than 2% of the population so it doesn’t count since they also don’t have political influence.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a cope. White women will get to experience the exact same loss of privilege that these 30% of men have.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Not really. White women have privilege for being white, but are oppressed for being female. Therefore, that "privilege" is barely a scrap of human rights and dignity and cannot be "shared" via a zero sum game but rather extended to women of color et al.

[–]Radfem_the_Hun 13 insightful - 9 fun13 insightful - 8 fun14 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

In the wise words of Rhys Rachel Veronica Ivy FoxyMoxy McKinnon: "They just need to work harder."

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course— as if automation had nothing to do with this. People also forget women at large have always worked.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right now, women earn roughly 82 cents for every dollar earned by men, with women of color earning even less. Over the course of a 40-year career, this adds up to $407,760 in lost wages, according to the National Women’s Law Center. For Black, Latina and Native women, this wage disparity adds up to a loss of nearly $1 million or more over the course of one’s career.

When I was active in the women’s movement, it was 75 cents to a man’s dollar. Progress! It is now 82 cents. 🙄

Libfems have lost their way. There are so many woman-centered issues that are not being addressed.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"expense" = diminishing privilege

I'm living for it.

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We've all been screwed over but it's the economy and inflated property market which is the problem. You should be able to by a small house with one above average income.

[–]Killer_Danish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This GamerGate era video says it all