"I know so many lovely transladies" is said quite a bit. But how do you know for sure?

submitted by tuesday from (self.GenderCritical)

I see the following said fairly regularly

The trans people that I have met in person are very nice and respectful people!

But how true is it really? It reminds me too much of NotAllTrans NotAllMen NotMyNigel etc

First, what's the purpose of saying it at all? When a woman says that about men, when the convo is about the behavior of men which is harmful to women, the purpose is to change the subject. Either because she can't cope with the idea that even some men can behave in ways which contribute to an environment of systematic hostility and oppression, or she's either consciously or unconsciously trying to get OTHER women to stop focusing on the bad behavior of some men. What else could it be?

Secondly. Considering the enormous amount of political lobbying, emotional manipulation, and of course the prevalence of cancel culture -- all of which is supposedly achieved by only a few transactivists, it seems quite odd that the "vast majority" are so very nice. i actually think it's more like, as long as you're giving the transperson standing in front of you all the validation they crave, then of course they're not going to show you their crazy side.

There's an old saying "A woman can't tell which man is a rapist until she tells him NO". If have to appease some wanker and ever so gently pander to his feelz when he's being borderline creepy, well, it's because I don't feel safe around him. A normal guy would just accept my casual or maybe even irritated "no thanks" and move on.

I'm starting to wonder if most of them are two-faced. They act charming to you but then go screaming to their boss or congressional representative about how "transphobic" everyone is. What do you all think?

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[–]PlayCardsNotPeople 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To the first part, I see it as an attempt to not alianate the listeners off the bat.
Most women have experiences of men, who behave like human beings.
If you insist that all men are pigs, they are going to dismiss whatever else you are going to say.
The same applies to trans. If the listener has had an experience with a trans person behaving like a human being, and you insist they are all bullies, whatever you say next will be dismissed.

As to most of them being two-faced - I sometimes wonder that too.
It's not like they are going to be going around announcing their autogynephilia to the world.

[–]tuesday[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you insist that all men are pigs, they are going to dismiss whatever else you are going to say.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you!

[–]Anna_Nym 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

What I mean when I distinguish between trans activism and the majority of trans people I know in real life is a simple, but important, thing. The majority of trans people I know in real life freely admit their biological sex, freely distinguish between themselves and natal males/females, and don't feel harmed by discussion of biology or sexed bodies. They generally also acknowledge there are non-transphobic reasons to be concerned about trans women competing in women's sports or being in women's prisons. They support gender neutral bathrooms, but aren't offended by talking about how current bathrooms need to be altered to make gender neutral bathrooms safe.

I have seen some drifting towards biological denialism over the past two years, so I don't know how much the above will change. But unfortunately, I've also seen that drifting in many of my non-trans friends because I've been in super woke circles. With a few exceptions, people are following the trend rather than leading it.

I do wonder about the percentage of autogynephilia. Now that I know more about it, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that something like 3/4 of the trans people I know have some degree of autogynephilia. But if so, it isn't influencing creepy or predatory behavior in any perceptible way.

For me, it's important to acknowledge this because at heart, I'm simply not anti-trans. I believe transition helps a lot of people. I don't think our rights have to be in conflict. I can acknowledge gender identity if trans people will acknowledge biological sex, and we can work through when the one matters more than the other (for example, gender identity mattering for dress codes in the workspace but sex mattering for sports and vulnerable spaces like changing rooms or prisons.) But the fetish-driven trans activism is forcing our rights in conflict, and women need to be able to call it out.

[–]Thatstealthygal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same. I feel like as a technical terf I need to make it clear that i don't hate trans people and am willing to take them at face value. The TW I've met have been odd but ok. The TMs unremarkable. But I've not had close relationships with anyone trans.

[–]tuesday[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The majority of trans people I know in real life freely admit their biological sex, freely distinguish between themselves and natal >males/females, and don't feel harmed by discussion of biology or sexed bodies. They generally also acknowledge their are non-transphobic reasons to be concerned about trans women competing in women's sports or being in women's prisons.

That is really interesting, thank you. I wonder why I've met so many that are the opposite? One transwoman I knew, was a grad student, and he would go on and on about a software program he was developing which he desperately hoped someday would allow brain transplants into "donor bodies". Super creepy doesn't even begin to describe this guy. What was even worse, was that he would brag about how many conferences he was invited to, and how many wealthy patrons were willing to fund his research. When i tried, very tactfully and gently, to introduce the degree of medical difficulties between a head transplant and say, a knee replacement, he pretty much had a meltdown.

And the transwoman who within an hour of meeting me, decided that i should volunteer to run a support group for trans in my spare time, and got all his trans friends to stalk me when I said no.

And then there was the ex-military guy who told me the story of his brother who died when they were both young, around four and six years old, and (really sorry I just cannot afford to out myself here) the way he GLOATED how happy he was when he basically caused his brother's death. He kept a... "token" from the event which caused his brother's death and would frequently caress it with a great deal of pleasure!

Just so many weirdos. I just can't pretend to even like these people. There were a few who were within the range of "normal" considering they were trans, but for the most part, I wound up getting an extremely negative view of transpeople.

[–]MezozoicGay 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I think it depends on country and on when they became transgenders. In our country and media this transgender boom started to happen roughly 5-7 years ago only, while in USA and UK this stuff is 15-20+ years old. And people becoming transgender during this time are mostly brainwashed, as they literally do not know that there can be different way. And many times gender stereotypes are pushing them to where they don't belong, or explaining their kinks or sexuality as "you just born in wrong body". When I started in our country LGBT protests were mostly calm and with thoughtful people, who wanted changes and were openned to debates, most trans people were transsexuals (mostly loving men, but some were loving women, still accepting who they are). There were perverts, weirdos, and so on - but they were alianated almost always from us and were standing aside. Nowadays such meetings here are just a clown mess with alcohol and horny teens, and most of LGBT protests are filled with transgenders (sometimes up to 80-90% of attendees). Nowadays it is "cool", plus it is a way to run away from homophobic society, as for some reason our society is much more tolerant toward transgenders than towards lesbians, bisexual or gay people.

I sound like a grumpy old grandfather, huh.

[–]tuesday[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ha, i actually like grumpy old people, they have earned much knowledge and wisdom the hard way!

[–]Anna_Nym 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This is hard because I don't want to doxx myself and I know you don't either. But I'd love to know if there are commonalities between spaces that attract more reality-connected trans people and spaces that attract more reality-disconnected trans people. I don't see any trends when I look at the online activists, not even in age.

Although I've had my suspicions about some others, I've only known one trans woman who was unambiguously delusional (she thought she had multiple personalities and talked to angels and demons). But even she was very reality based in terms or biology. She also wasn't threatening or creepy like the people you knew. Knowing her made me question what it means to be mentally ill because she was literally delusional, but she was also smart, successful in her job, and generally fun to talk to and spend time with.

That was a long time ago, though, when it was still progressive to use the wrong body narrative and distinguish between transsexuals with dysphoria and transvestites with a fetish. I don't know what she would say now, or how her general mental health may have deteriorated over time.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Realizing that you are ill is the first step to a normal life.

Knowing her made me question what it means to be mentally ill because she was literally delusional, but she was also smart, successful in her job, and generally fun to talk to and spend time with.

I can poke my friend, if you want to ask her about life with serious mental illness, she is pretty open about that.

[–]tuesday[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Is she a narcissist? Or other cluster B disorders? People with those issues normally do everything they can to hide that from other people, it's not something they share.

Most of the issues i'm referring to, when i think of the transwomen i have known, are all cluster B.

[–]MezozoicGay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, she is one of most sane and wise persons I know. And that is with heavy case of schizophrenia with hallucinations and changed perception of the world. And it is always funny to see her discussions with other people, especially about gender issues, because it is always seems like the other person is mentally ill and she is perfectly sane.

And about narcissism I am not sure. She was hating herself and her looks for almost whole her life (her schizophrenia started because people were hating her looks and tried to kill her for that), until started accepting her looks 5-7 years ago and loving herself a lot (sometimes way too much, but never in cost of other people). Not sure if it is narcissism, and even if it is one - it is controlled and acknowledged.

[–]tuesday[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is hard because I don't want to doxx myself and I know you don't either. But I'd love to know if there are commonalities between spaces that attract more reality-connected trans people and spaces that attract more reality-disconnected trans people. I don't see any trends when I look at the online activists, not even in age.

Without outing myself too much, i will give you a very big hint.

An analogy. There's an old saying, if you want to know what a man is really like, see how he treats those who he is paying to serve him.

It doesn't surprise me at all that the women who thought they were on an equal friendship footing with a transwoman, were taken in by the charm. In the exact same way that a misogynistic gay male will insert themselves into the friendship circle of a bunch of gender nonconforming women. They think he's a fine person and they feel sorry for him so they want to take care of him (more than they would another woman), and they further assume that his dealing with homophobia would give him insight and compassion with the sexism from which women suffer. So they feel safe around him and feel good that they can include "a man" in their friendship circle. Until the day they finally figure out that gay men can hate women in the exact same way as any het man.

Do they never wonder why so many gay men prefer to hang out with women, instead of other gay men??? It's not an accident there's always only one gay dood in a group of 5-10 women! He's there to be treated like the special snowflake queen bee within the group!

[–]Susiesmum 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The majority of trans people I know in real life freely admit their biological sex, freely distinguish between themselves and natal males/females, and don't feel harmed by discussion of biology or sexed bodies. They generally also acknowledge their are non-transphobic reasons to be concerned about trans women competing in women's sports or being in women's prisons.

Are you talking about Trans Identified Females? I've found that they tend to be a lot more realistic than Trans Identified Males, possibly because they're not transitioning because of a fetish.

[–]Anna_Nym 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Both. I've been in very woke circles. I'm not close friends with any trans people, but I've known a fair amount of transmen, transwomen, and enbies at the close acquaintance/casual friend/oversharing together on social networking level of relationship.

In my personal circles, the least willing to publicly acknowledge biology are the non-binary-identified women.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

are the non-binary-identified women

In last weeks of GC on reddit, there was posted a good article about the reasons why. Girls are scared of misogyny, they are tired from the pressure, so they are trying to escape cruel reality by rebranding themselves as men or non-binary, thinking (thanks to TRA agenda everywhere) that sexism is based on gender, not sex.

Maybe someone remember that article or remember it more clearly and can provide links. It was something about epidemic increase in transmen/non-binary quantities among young girls.

[–]IamWomanHearMeRoar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the least willing to publicly acknowledge biology are the non-binary-identified women.

More like the non-passing trans women who refuse to go through the procedures of actually trying to transition to a woman. Most of them seem to have AGP. I’ve noticed that the trans women who truly want to go through the procedure of changing their bodies to actually look and feel like women are more than willing to accept the differences between them and XX women and are much nicer.

[–]IamWomanHearMeRoar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

here is video evidence of a TiM acknowledging that:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M53WBYa_n4c YouTube

Watch from the 10 minute mark to 10:40.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do wonder about the percentage of autogynephilia. Now that I know more about it, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that something like 3/4 of >the trans people I know have some degree of autogynephilia. But if so, it isn't influencing creepy or predatory behavior in any perceptible way.

Sexologists Ray Blanchard and Michael Bailey say upwards 80% of TIMs today are AGP het males (when Blanchard came up with the typology the percentage was 75%). Also, even back in the day, a significant portion of gay TIMs - whom Blanchard called HSTS - also had AGP to some degree. It might not have been the overriding or main driving force behind their transition, but it was there all the same.

My hunch is that due to internet porn and all the bimbo/sissy/feminization fetishes and fantasies - amongst other factors - pretty much all TIMs nowadays regardless of their sexual orientation are AGP in a big way.

But if so, (their AGP) isn't influencing creepy or predatory behavior in any perceptible way.

Perhaps it's not perceptible to you because they keep their creepiness and predatory behaviors in check when you're around since you're a friend and they genuinely care about and respect you. Or maybe they fear you'll catch on and disapprove. Or perhaps they are displaying some creepiness and unsavory predatory behavior in your presence, but you are simply not seeing it.

Whatever the reason you don't perceive it in your friends behavior personally, it's nonetheless very likely - I'd say nearly dead certain, in fact - that your friends' AGP is indeed causing them to indulge in creepy and predatory behavior towards some other female people. Cuz that's the nature of AGP.

Only men with AGP who fully understand it and all the harms it brings, and are actively committed to not indulging it and subjecting girls and women to it, are the ones not foisting it on females and the whole world.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On GCG before closure there was a post made by one AGP male who almost transitioned, but then realized he just has AGP and that it is a kink. So he started acting with this like with kink and leaving it to private spaces only, just like BDSM-people mostly do.

And he voiced there idea as well - trans activists are trying to erase AGP mentioning or explanation from everywhere, while he (author of that topic) thinks that spreading info about AGP and how it works would help to a lot of AGP-males to stop being delusional, to accept themselves and to stop harming their own and surrounding people lives.

[–]IamWomanHearMeRoar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The majority of trans people I know in real life freely admit their biological sex, freely distinguish between themselves and natal males/females, and don't feel harmed by discussion of biology or sexed bodies. They generally also acknowledge there are non-transphobic reasons to be concerned about trans women competing in women's sports or being in women's prisons.

I agree with this, and here is video evidence of a TiM acknowledging that:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M53WBYa_n4c

Watch from the 10 minute mark to 10:40.

[–]IamWomanHearMeRoar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most of the online trans people are giving the trans community a bad name

[–]MezozoicGay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am actually saying similar phrase time to time about my friends (35-45+ years old, 15-20+ after transition, all married, all "old school transsexuals" post-op). And they are very upset with TWAW, because they were fighting for Trans rights, and now trans rights are being disregarded to be "women" rights instead, and real women rights are now pushed aside. It is almost like everything we with them together were fighting for Lesbians/Gay/Bisexual/Transsexual is now considered as "a bad thing" and slowly being erased for a new "gender ideology" that is nothing less than "patriarchical gender stereotypes on how and who must behave". However, most trans-gender people I know are actually just AGP (at least almost certainly, due to their behaviour and words) or "running from being gay in homophobic society".

However, in many cases in discussions similar things are said in a similar way as "women sometimes beting men too". This can and should be disregarded. The fact that there one women beating husband per hundred of thousands men who are applying domestic violence means just nothing. It is not systematic, it just "happens sometimes", while other way happens all the time and is accepted by society as a norm.

And same here. Just because there are sane trans-people does not mean that AGP is not a problem anymore, does not mean that Self-ID laws are extremely abusable in their current implementation, does not meant that fight for women rights should be stopped. If some are not predators - it does not mean that the rest aren't.