Bear with me a second -- I feel like I ended up here because the LGBTQA+ Community became toxic

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[–][deleted] 37 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 0 fun38 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I know right wingers accuse the current state of transactivism to be due to "The Gay Agenda". I don't think the current state of things would have happened without the internet. I see this as more of a development due to the normalization of porn culture. Porn culture wasn't just driven by gay people, and porn culture as we know it now didn't exist when gay activism started. Porn existed, but it wasn't 24/7/365 available, and not everyone had frequent access to it. Straight men ran to technology in droves so they could access pornography via the internet, computers, and now their phones. I think the gay activism movement just happened to overlap with the beginning of the Pornifciation of Everything. Straight women who remember the pre-internet days will confirm that men have become more dehumanizing, kink-obsessed, toxic and abusive towards women since porn became ubiquitous. They're more demanding in terms of insisting that the women they're dating conform to their violent, toxic, abrasive fantasies or they shame and blackmail their girlfriends/wives. Many of them seem to be morphing into pedophiles, obsessed with BDSM, rape-play, polyamory, race-play, choke-play, shit-and-piss play, diaper play, furry-play, and some are even becoming a sort of synthetic bisexual that's fueled by their porn use. They get so deep into the rabbit hole that they keep grasping for more extreme porn to get their kicks. Some of them, it seems, become so addicted that they want to BECOME the women they objectify. Then they demand that EVERYONE play into their kinks, fantasies, delusions, even in public and at work. It's bizarre. It's like a complete and total obsession with sexuality and pushing boundaries is giving people profound brain damage. To imagine these weird behaviors have seeped into the LGBTQ+ community doesn't surprise me. It seems that few demographics of people are NOT influenced by "porn culture".

[–]SameOldBS 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lots of truth in one you say here. Porn, like any drug, demands higher and higher doses because of desensitisation. I think AGP is definitely one way men who've run out of the usual stimuli can feed their habit.

[–]lavender_menace 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hi and welcome. Thank you for writing such a thoughtful piece. Honestly many lesbians incl. me think that way and you are not alone in this.

there is a LGBdropT community here, where you can voice your concerns as well. GettheLout is under construction.

[–]lavender_menace 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven’t been to Pride in years, because it’s not my cup of coffee any more, even though parades in my city are free of public sex and intoxication, you’ll see your occasional gay guy in a thong in feathers or body paint and there is a BDSM part which has it’s elements. Nevertheless I have no interest in participating in that and would like to just meet people in private or bars and chill and just basically live my life.

[–]just_lesbian_things 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There was also quite a bit of messaging regarding that sexuality can take some years to settle itself down. (Basically, teenage hormones can overcome a lot of obstacles -- don't assume from a single event, or even a couple of events that your sexuality is one thing or another.)

Ugh, I remember that too. I don't think it's a bad idea in and of itself, but combined with the homophobia and the lesbianism is a phase nonsense, it kept me closeted for close to a decade while I waited to turn heterosexual. I think there's a healthier medium between that and taking your gay child to pride, though. I wish everyone would calm down. Pride is sexual and political and I don't think children should have a place in that. I wasn't trying to make a statement or have sex as a 12 year old lesbian; I was trying to get a seat next to the girl I had a crush on in math class and work up the courage to talk in front of her. Children shouldn't be involved in activism, imo. There's time for that when they're older.

While I can't speak for everyone, and would never try, since then I've noticed that many butches exhibit behavior that is hyper-masc, or even neckbeard-y.

Take it with a grain of salt because this is my own experience and my own theory, but I've seen that behavior all around, not only from butches, and usually in lesbians around my age (20s). I think there's a lack of guidance for lesbians on how to approach other women. Nobody ever taught me, and nobody ever taught any of my lesbian friends. Lesbian relationships aren't often shown in the media. Maybe back before all the lesbian bars got shut down, we would've learned from older lesbians, but most of us came of age during that decline. We're sort of left to our own devices and I think it's tempting to try and learn the toxic, hyper-masc behavior simply due to a lack of alternatives. I also think lesbians are subjected to hypersexualization from society at large. When I was a teenager, googling "lesbian" got me several pages of porn before I could find a forum, and all the lesbian forums were filled with heterosexual couples seeking a threesome using fairly graphic language. I don't know how to flirt, and I don't think I've ever met a lesbian my age who knew how to flirt (well, truth be told, I would probably not recognize it as flirting anyhow). The lesbians I know alternate between completely friendly discussion and extremely explicit language. I don't know if that's how it always was with lesbians, but I've had heterosexual friends of both sexes express alarm, so I don't think that's how it is for straight people.

[–]lairacunda 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And that's the problem with not being allowed to have lesbian and women-only spaces. You never learn from elders or get to co-create your culture. This whole fucking world revolves on male-sexuality. I never noticed until I became a radical feminist. Everything from social etiquette to war is predicated on male sexual models of conquest.

[–]spinningIntelligence 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think if Pride were shifted to be a more romantic affair, if could be kid friendly. Sometimes all I wanted was to hug the girl I cared for, or hold her hand. It wasn't all about sex. If Pride could emphasize that, caring for your partner, rather than fucking them, I think it would actually be worthwhile going. Relationship workshops rather than BDSM ones.

And in my experience, yeah, I tried to learn from toxic men how to approach girls. Thankfully, I was also a coward and so never got close enough to severely damage someone before I got my shit (somewhat) together.

[–]DogeWalker 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't think a couple of weirdo lesbians being creepy is remotely comparable to all the consequences of gender ideology and extreme trans activism, no. Otherwise mostly agree.

[–]lairacunda 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You sound like you are just personally uncomfortable around GNC women, especially lesbians. What I've noticed in my personal experience is that it doesn't take much. It doesn't take much for people to find you repulsive if YOU DON'T PERFORM FEMININITY, if you like to do things that are culturally determined to be "male" things, if you are more physical and don't care to cater to the male gaze while working out, if you don't care that you ruffle feathers or hurt feelings because you intuitively know it's not your job to take care of men... or anyone. There are still millions of bona fide lesbians in the world but you manage to find the GNC woman who's most male-identified (in the traditional feminist sense of the term) and proceed to paint all of us with a broad roller.

Here's some background information. LGB as a political coalition came out of the Gay Liberation Movement which, despite its name had plenty of lesbians in it, lesbians who were organizing in the broader women's movement as well. The early liberation movement was very straight laced by comparison to what came later and they would have achieved absolutely nothing had they not been. But the early movement was never homogenous and one of the points of contention from the get-go was that the men and the women often had very different goals. It probably comes as a surprise to almost no one on this sub that the oppression and the issues that lesbians were dealing with (and are still dealing with) stemmed as much, if not more, from being a woman than from being a lesbian. The men on the other hand were not being oppressed because they were male but because they were gay, and because of the mainstream, status-quo reaction to their sexuality, sexuality that was not always kept out of the public eye despite laws and penalties. But originally the decriminalization efforts were focused on privacy, protections and legal rights for both gay men and women, at least officially. The truth is that in actuality the men got a lot more out of that struggle than we did because many of the problems confronting women remained firmly in place. Women's Liberation probably did as much if not more for lesbians than Gay Rights ever did.

So fastforwarding, the excesses of Pride started in the 90s, some would say the late 80s. My first pride in 1980 had none of the glitz, corporate sponsorship, floats, political endorsements, displays of public nudity, tacky bling or widespread media coverage that is now standard. Back then they were more like large family picnics with a stage and a lot of volunteers. You tried not to leave alone so as not to get assaulted. Obviously a lot has changed. The reason for what it's become is that we are different groups with different interests pretending we are all one big happy family. Many, not all, gay/bi men want to cruise and hang out in thongs. Many of the women just want a nice day celebration. Everyone wants to dance. It's a very mixed bag. And what about everyone else? They're there for the party! They get to act out their fetish in public at our expense but guess what, they're invited because it's LGBTQWTF+. We pretend it's for everyone but in reality Pride is a celebration of male sexuality. That's why a het couple in full dungeon gear will feel so welcome and accommodated. And that's why I haven't gone in a very long time just like all the other lesbians I know, including very butch women who like myself cannot stomach it.

[–]MezozoicGay 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

came out with "Pansexual is the only moral choice."

By the way, what is pansexuality? No one I asked could gave me an answer. Answer is always "it is someone who likes/attracted to more sexes than to males and females". And to "what other sexes?" there always either no answer or block/ban.

[–]Nonime 5 insightful - 8 fun5 insightful - 7 fun6 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

Someone who really likes kitchen implements.

[–]MezozoicGay 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, so it is frying pans lover, now I get it!

[–]slushpilot 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, it's just "bi" for people who are unable to use that word because of their need to declare sex is a spectrum.

[–]No_ 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

I’m lesbian, I’m afraid to say within my own community that I don’t have enough information about children who were raised by same sex couples to agree that same sex couples should be allowed to adopt.

If the information comes back as “the kids are fine” then whoop I’ll agree. If not then I’ll disagree.

Yet I’d probably be punched if I actually said this in wokeistan.

I honestly hate the community, for what it’s become. I desperately wish I was straight, I desperately want nothing to do with a community that is so blind to pedophilia. Or even actively promotes it because it makes “special” people happy.

[–]MezozoicGay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

“the kids are fine”

I know people here are not very liking Blaire White, however, this video is all about those super-woke fathers (and rarely mothers) ruining their kids life by every day reminding them about gender and by indoctrinating them since birth. Especially stuff like "my girl likes to be active, so she is non-binary or transmen" (like wth, only boys can be active?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPeGmjvgXI4

same sex couples should be allowed to adopt

If children would just be growing up, without any agenda, they should be fine in most cases. In two gay couples and one lesbian couple who adopted or IVF kids, that I am friends with for years, kids grown up as a normal children, none of them are homosexual or transgender, only much more accepting to LGBT people around, and that is it. They were growing up their kids with love, without any agenda, any speaking about sexuality. Gay couple who had a girl actually were taking a lot of advices from women, and were taking female nun, so she explains to her about periods and other women-only things. So I suppose it all depends on amount of effort that same-sex parents want to take on themselves. In most cases, thought, they would most likely do not care or if they are woke - fill kids with gender or sexuality ideas and ruin their lives. So I'd say in most cases same-sex couples should not be able to adopt unless they prove themselves that they can take care about children. I am gay men myself, for reference.

Main problem here is not in inability to grown up sane and healthy child, but in a fact that there no literature, no researches, no help and nowhere to look about what to do for same sex parents. Especially if kid is of opposite sex than couple.

[–]lairacunda 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why should same-sex couples be held to higher standards than heterosexuals in order to adopt?

[–]lairacunda 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why should same-sex couples be held to higher standards than heterosexuals in order to adopt?

[–]MezozoicGay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Mostly because there no researches about this, people do not know how to act and how to be good parents, and in cases when sex of kid is opposite of couple sex, it can cause many problems. I witnessed few such situations (with gay couple and girl, and twice with single father and girl), in one case it has very big impact on a kid, as when she had her first menstruation, she thought she is dying and was shocked so much, that had problems with speaking normally later. I think for lone parents it should be same standarts too, when kid is opposite sex.

[–]lairacunda 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That argues more against parenting by males, especially idiot-males, than by same-sex couples. Interestingly enough, there's plenty of evidence that heterosexual males are dangerous and should be nowhere near children. I don't see you worrying about that.

[–]MezozoicGay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I did mentioned male single parents and focused on male gay couples, thought. While yes, main concerns I see is male father/fathers and female kid. Especially if males are straight.

Plus problem with that is not just "idiots", but mostly because there almost no easy accessible info about women healt, women body and women development. Men just have no idea how different women body and growing process to their own, even if they are good intentional and would like to do everything good. And now this "gender theory" ideas that "transwomen body is female too" is only making everything worse, because it spreads lies that "only few hormones is the difference between man and woman". And if previously patriarchy just did not cared about it, nowadays even if someone will try to teach people about women biology, that someone will be treated as world first enemy for being "non inclusive".

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'd say in most cases same-sex couples should not be able to adopt unless they prove themselves that they can take care about children.

This is of course impossible to prove—of anyone—since even many straight couples are unable to raise children in an emotionally healthy and safe way. I agree with you though, the concern is whether the child is being brought into a stable home where she is very much wanted, or is just a convenient political tool to prove something.

There are important signals though. I think there is a big difference between a quiet lesbian/gay couple with a child, whose goal is not to be "seen" as something unique and special—and a trans person whose obsession is about being seen, with a child, to prove what a great Mother™ or Father™ they are.

[–]MezozoicGay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with that.

[–]spinningIntelligence 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You can express your opinion, and people pointing out how irrational and homophobic it is does not mean that they are from “wokeistan.”

Firstly, there has been decades of studies showing that same-sex couples raise children who are as healthy (if not more so) as children raised by straight couples. Yet despite your “doubt”, you didn’t bother looking them up yourself. Hmm; why would that be?

Secondly, fuck the studies we don’t need them, because the suspicions on same-sex couples, but not straight ones, is unjustifiable. Why are straight couples exempt from this suspicion, despite the fact that only straight couples can have an UNINTENDED pregnancy? Are you implying that children born to parents who may not want them are more likely to be healthy?

Why are straight couples the default for raising healthy kids if you yourself admit to not knowing whether or not same-sex couples could raise healthier kids? Why are lesbian couples under suspicion when it is men who are most likely to rape abuse and murder their families? Why are women deficient in raising children unless a man is around, despite the fact that women do most of the childcare? Does this doubt extend to single mothers? If women are less able to raise healthy children without a man, then why do so many people resent their step-fathers? Why is “one man and one woman” the default?

Thirdly, the straight community promotes pedophilia all the time: the trans movement is a straight men’s movement, pornography is increasingly sexualizing little girls, and most child sexual abuse is done by men to girls. Yet the LGB is so shameful that you want to get out of it and jump to the straight community?

Homophobia sliding under the radar in the guise of something noble is how we got into this mess. Trans hid their homophobia under a rainbow umbrella, and now people are “fighting back” against trans by tossing bile on the LGB.

I understand being uncomfortable with or hating your sexuality. Truly I do. Here is some reasoning that helped me realize that that was ridiculous:

The only meaningful distinction between a same-sex relationship and a straight one is the potential for UNINTENTED pregnancy. Unless unintended pregnancies have some inherent value that dwarfs all other aspects of a relationship and parenthood, and the lack of this risk is detrimental in some way, there is no reason to value straightness more than lesbianism (or celibacy).

[–]lairacunda 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The other difference is that same-sex couples have an inherently level playing field. The class dynamics and differences inherent in heterosexuality are not present.

[–]venecia 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And I do not feel that it is for the sake of the children -- it seems to me that it's to guarantee a steady flow of young partners.

Well, that's a side to it that I've never seen. And it cannot be unseen. ughhhhh

[–]Nonime 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I came into "queer" culture right after the big win in 2008. At the time I was giddy about it. I was even a small-time activist for about 5 years. But I remember a friend who said very dourly, "the backlash won't be good."

Wow, your friend was more insightful than most. Is she quite intelligent?