all 36 comments

[–]Riothamus 39 insightful - 6 fun39 insightful - 5 fun40 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Babies, AIs, and fucking CATS AND DOGS can tell the difference.

https://qz.com/1726806/facial-recognition-ai-from-amazon-microsoft-and-ibm-misidentifies-trans-and-non-binary-people/

The AIs can't read delusional brainwaves. Yet.

[–]IridescentAnaconda 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Comedy gold.

But sex isn't real... 🙄

[–]LoganBlade 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

musk is working on it

www.neuralink.com

[–]fuckingsealions 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

A lot of it is in literal bone structure, apparently.

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/forensic-facial-reconstruction/0/steps/25656

https://fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences/

I've been thinking about this a lot lately because this sub introduced me to Jazz Jennings, who I would still nail as a boy/man, despite things like puberty blockers.

[–]Fleursdumal 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree for jazz Jennings. She looks like a prepubescent boy. Same thing for Hunter Schafer. It falls into uncanny valley. I think that even if you never heard about trans and you met them, your brain would tell you that something is wrong

[–]Riothamus 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is anyone even going to feign surprise if the parents of Jazz Jennings and Desmondisamazing end up like Dee Dee Blanchard?

[–]Bitchcraft 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Jazz Jennings, who I would still nail as a boy/man

What gives it away for you? I couldn't tell.

[–]fuckingsealions 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ok this is where I admit it gets tricky and vague. I cannot bring myself to dissect a person with lines and arrows a la Perez Hilton or those plastic surgery sites (and I know you didn't ask for that), but I think there's something in the forehead/brow, and kind of a blockiness overall in the face. https://soapdirt.com/i-am-jazz-spoilers-jazz-jennings-scary-post-surgery-pop-second-operation-needed-asap/

Jazz simply looks like and reminds me of a lot of boys I've known who do present as masculine/male. I see a lot of it in candid photos as opposed to posed pictures.

I'm not trying to slam Jazz's appearance. This is a very feminine-presenting person, and I don't think everyone should get to one side like you're Barbie or Ken. But something pops for me, even in earlier-transitioning youth (like the Sports Illustrated model). It's ok, it is what it is. It's just that subtle thing.

I googled Valentina Sampao last night, and similar issue. Pap photos on the street or runway--looks male. Posed modeling photos--very female. Again it's in the brow and blocky face. A lot of men causally frown in a way that intensifies it and makes them look angrier than a woman intentionally frowning imo because of that heavy brow.

[–]Badmammajamma 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I took a human evolution and biology class in college years ago and we had to identify the sex of human bones. If a skull had brow ridges, it was male. Human men still have those heavier brow ridges.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I know what you mean, I usually see it right around the brow bone too. It's that T section where the bridge of the nose is met between the eyes. When they start having surgery there, they start looking like post-menopausal women that have had a facelift, where it gets weird and sunken in-y (like Jeffrey Star--who isn't trans at all, but just an example).

[–]fuckingsealions 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh interesting! I haven't looked at Starr for years. I really see the comparison to older women who've had a lot of work done.

[–]GCSeedling[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you, this is very helpful!

[–]fuckingsealions 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh good!

[–]crodish 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is what we learn in art school too, when we have to draw women who distinctly look female and men who distinctly look male. There's no shame in drawing nonconforming characters, but there's a reason why the Disney princess line and anime girls do so well in merchandising.

I wonder how facial feminine surgery will play a part in the future, as far as digging up skulls and examining them go. I'm sure they can probably tell surgical work was done, but still.

[–]Bogos 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Survival instinct

[–]WhyDoesHeDoThat 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This.

Women live in a world full of sadistic predators. We have to be able to pick them out in order to survive.

[–]Bitchcraft 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Any type of pattern matching the brain does is complex and contains subconscious ("non-explicit") heuristics. Right now I'm reading a book[1] in which the author asserts that paramedics sometimes "just know" that somebody who they meet in some non-medical context is about to have a heart attack. Turns out there is a characteristic change in blood flow in the face that announces a heart attack, which an experienced paramedic can unknowingly pick up on!

Some candidates for non-obvious clues are:

  • The amount of contrast in somebodies face. The more contrast, the more feminine. [0]

  • Proportions that depend on height. Even when you can't tell how tall somebody (because their body is out of frame), your brain could pick up on the jawline-neck ratio.

  • Skull shape. Men's eyes tend to be a bit more deeply set, i.e. they have a thicker browbone.

  • Posture and gestures. Somebody who tries to perform gestures they are not used to may unintentionally exaggerate.

  • Women's hair is much thicker than men's. As a result, identical haircuts end up looking slightly different. Women's long haircuts naturally have more volume than men's.

  • Skin texture is influenced both by sex hormones and chromosomes directly.

Hope this is helpful!

[0] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26883022_A_sex_difference_in_facial_contrast_and_its_exaggeration_by_cosmetics [1] Atomic Habits (Pop sci about habits, opinion so far: generic self help thingie)

[–]fuckingsealions 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Right now I'm reading a book[1] in which the author asserts that paramedics sometimes "just know" that somebody who they meet in some non-medical context is about to have a heart attack. Turns out there is a characteristic change in blood flow in the face that announces a heart attack, which an experienced paramedic can unknowingly pick up on!

So interesting! Humans are supposed to discern between danger/safe, good/bad, sick/well. We do worse with lying but a lot of times we discern that as well.

So when a person tells me TWAW, I just have to think of that "pronouns are Rohypnol" article. You can't piss on my leg and tell me it's a vulva.

[–]GConly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This reminds me of a study (pop thing in a class) I did with students years ago.

I made up two identical cartoon faces, grey scale, with slightly different contrast. One had lighter hair and eyes, slightly darker lips and lighter skin. Asked them which of them were male and female.

The higher contrast colour one with lighter skin and eyes I described was voted as female by about 3/4.

Women typically have lighter eyes hair and skin. Higher colour contrast on the lips. Turns out that even on gender neutral cartoon faces this registers as feminine.

[–]Realwoman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, that's why makeup makes the face more feminine Most makeup exaggerates the natural lying occurring contrast.

[–]GCSeedling[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you so much, this is along the lines of what I needed! The "unintentionally exaggerated" gestures part made me think of a horror story about a monster who had to "perform" manual breathing, but that's completely off-topic. Anyway, this helps a lot, thank you.

[–]1352DogwoodAvenue 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reminds me of the Anatomy Class episode of the The Magnus Archives - when the whole class suddenly starts breathing after the teacher explains how the lungs work.

[–]Bitchcraft 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

a horror story about a monster who had to "perform" manual breathing

Huh, sounds interesting, do you remember what it was called.

Also please lets be careful not to say things that could be misunderstood as us saying "trans people are all monsters". I don't assume that you were saying that, but let's be careful.

[–]Bitchcraft 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

a horror story about a monster who had to "perform" manual breathing

Sounds interesting, do you remember what it was called?

Also please lets be careful not to say things that could be misunderstood as us saying "trans people are all monsters". I don't assume that you were saying that, but let's be careful.

[–]GCSeedling[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure thing, there was a series of (now famous) posts on Reddit /nosleep from SearchandRescue, one of which inlcuded a monster that stood behind a boy, and another involved a camper sighting some thing while looking for his girlfriend.

Also, I wondered about that wording when I responded, but figured it wouldn't be lumped together with trans-people.

[–]Badmammajamma 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It’s biology. You can’t change how women and men walk, for instance. You can practice, but the reality is women tend to have larger hips and walk differently. Women don’t have heavy brow ridges that men have. Hands and feet and height are typically smaller overall. And mannerisms and speech patterns. Women move, gesture, and speak differently than men do. Putting all of that together, your brain reads this person as female.

[–]Lilith_Fair 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When it comes down to it, animals including human need to instinctively recognize the opposite sex. If not, we wouldn't be able to procreate. The fact that Woke people are acting as if they don't know this, and calling for the whole society to suddenly deny this instinct, is ridiculous. The idea that we even need research on this is as ridiculous as having a need to research whether men are physically stronger than women and therefore should not compete in sports together. They're all so Woke, they're brain damaged.

I also think women are further biologically programmed to instinctively recognize a man for self-protection and preservation. It doesn't mean every man we see is dangerous. But it is a way for us to know how to react to ensure our own safety.

[–]-thedarkhorse- 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For me it is just natural instinct. It's like slamming the brakes on a car, you don't ponder which pedal to press or which foot to use. My brain just looks at a whole person and instinctively tells me in milliseconds. If I am asked to explain why I have perceived someone is male I will struggle because it is so many small things that make up a the whole.

[–]GConly 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Prenatal testosterone affects facial bone structure, speech (women and gay men have something if a lisp) and body language/movement patterns.

Prenatal testosterone exposure is related to sexually dimorphic facial morphology in adulthood https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4614768/

Gay men have lower testosterone exposure or responses as embryos. It's the reason that computer programs can now pick out the face of gay men with reasonable accuracy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-41188560

It's why the only TIMs that pass reasonably well are the HSTS who had puberty blockers. They have quite effeminate faces and body language already.

[–]1352DogwoodAvenue 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to live in a big city and walk in a crowded downtown every day and it became sort of a game to me to try to make assumptions about people from behind before I caught up to them. NO BREASTS. NO MAKEUP. NO VOICE to be making assumptions off of.

Things I found out:

You can tell someone is male by the way the walk even when they're in heels because of their calf shape: men have less body fat, so the muscles are more defined, giving an a more angular look, especially on the interior silhouette.

If they're wearing pants and a coat, you can tell someone is male by the way they walk: when they take a step forward their knee extends and their foot ends up closer to the center of their body. When women step forward their knees tend to angle inwards while their ankles kick outwards more, because of hip joint placement).

Even men with long hair can be pegged as men from the back, usually due to the skull shape, and if they have a ponytail, from the size of the neck in proportion.

Additionally, male shoulders tend to move more when they walk (right foot forward left shoulder forward) whereas women tend to be more balanced above the waist, possible due to a lower center of gravity.

But I've also had ftm classmates who I talked to for months before finding out they were trans.

[–]VioletRemi 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wonder if there any studies about scents/smells? As I can tell male or female person is even with closed eyes if I just sniff them. Not sure if it is something special to me (as I have too sensitive smell sense), or it is something researched.

[–]No_ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because if a man fucks a man no baby is born.

Genetically it’s very important to tell the sexes apart.

And for women it literally saves our lives.