In the Covid-19 Economy, You [Women] Can Have a Kid or a Job. You Can’t Have Both.

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[–]gparmesan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for posting. I feel this writer’s frantic pain, I have definitely struggled with the disruptions in childcare, this has been rough and it’s not even close to over. I feel so bad for teachers.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

<3

[–]Camberian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Probably very unpopular opinion here, but I do not think that the people are trolls, who say that having children comes with setbacks and responsibilities and is a choice parents have made when having them.

People need to get [back] to the point where they understand that they can't have their cake and eat it too. Not unless they are willing to pay the much higher taxes and vote for the much more left-wing socialist political parties who are willing to ensure that these costs [of parenthood] are shouldered not by individuals, but instead by the solidly united commonality. That would be the only route which separates consequences from the deed for the individual parents.

Personally, I made the choice of not having children when I was 14. I never wavered from that. I'm an artist, I knew ahead that my work and children would never combine. Not because of a lack of someone else who'd take care of them (I live in a country with extensive parental aid, pregnancy leave and parental leave for BOTH parents as per choice, and I have friends and family where the men stayed at home and took/take care of the children for many years).

No, it was exactly this conundrum currently faced by so many parents, that decided me. I knew that I - if push comes to shove - would resent giving up time, work and goals to raise and maintain a child. And really, no child deserves having such a parent and such a mindset forced on them. It's not that difficult to reflect upon this and come to a decision.

Insofar I do feel sorry for this writer, but at the same time, I think she and her partner haven't thought things through enough prior to deciding to have children. I also think that if you want such specific societal problems to change, you really need to first set things in motion politically, and given where the USA currently are drifting, given that apparently so many already unfavourably view general health insurance, I doubt a socialised childcare is anywhere nearby. In such a societal climate complacency will bite you in the end.

For the moment all one can hope is that TPB quickly become more reasonable in the fight against infections and that they'll find a solid treatment and/or a vaccination.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The upshot of this is women doing that much more unpaid labor.

having children comes with setbacks and responsibilities and is a choice parents have made when having them.

But men by and large don't have to make that tradeoff choice--it's the women who get the setbacks and responsibilities. I don't have children either...but whenever I think about the toll this is having on women who do, I'm really bummed for them. Yes, the cost needs to be shouldered by the community with higher taxes, but that's not where we are, and I really feel for them. And from a selfish perspective, the inequalities that come out of this have an effect on all women as a class.

[–]Camberian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, the cost needs to be shouldered by the community with higher taxes, but that's not where we are, and I really feel for them. And from a selfish perspective, the inequalities that come out of this have an effect on all women as a class.

If anything, I would hope that afterwards, when there is the leisure and ability to reflect about what happened, that women would again band together realising that equality hasn't been achieved yet by a mile and then some. That there are more changes to actively work for, especially by those women who want to combine work and children. I think that liberal feminism has become too complacent in that respect and somehow believes the war has been won, when it was just a squirmish or two.

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that what gets forgotten is that when men let someone else bring up their kids that means they have a very different relationship to those kids than people who actually take the time out to raise them. I know so many people who don't even speak to their fathers and I'm sure you do too. My mum used to run a sheltered housing block and one guy had 10 kids but still ended up in a bedsit on his own because they all hated him, those kids looked after their mothers at home though. So men can't have it all either, they also have a trade off, they just worry about it less.

[–]firebird 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"having children comes with setbacks and responsibilities and is a choice parents have made when having them"

I think that's exactly the issue in a lot of cases: it's not a choice most people consciously make, when they definitely should be very conscious about it. There are still an awful lot of unplanned pregancies, and even when it's a planned pregnancy the planning often still seems limited to "I just know I want kids".

Ironically enough, this seems to be mostly a thing among childfree people (like you and me). Having kids is still seen as the "default", so most of the people who are very conscious about it, are the ones opting out.

[–]Camberian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I absolutely agree with you. If anything, this part of the current Covid-19 pandemic ought to result in a much, much better general sex-ed in schools, and it should be obligatory for all and everyone (including homeschoolers). Pros and cons of pregnancy and children need to be part of it, and I am also 180% for a pro-choice information about contraceptives and solutions such as the day-after-pill, abortions, or adoptions. I find it inconceivable that any western democratic nation in this day and age still holds women hostage of the child-rearing question. This needs being addressed on a broad front and from all sides.

[–]firebird 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly, the pandemic has brought us to a turning point and this could be a great time to make some good changes in society. I agree that education should take priority here, it's the first and probably biggest step in empowering people to make informed choices. Especially in this age where so many misinformation is spread through the internet, it's vital to give people access to actual decent information with research to back it up. For example, there are still pregnant women who aren't aware of some of the more common side effects/complications of pregnancy, and this could so easily be improved on.

[–]Yayme 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I doubt a socialised childcare is anywhere nearby.

School literally was socialized childcare. The problem here is that our version of socialized childcare is now going away.

The children spent many more hours in school than they really needed to, and honestly, most of it was just busy work. Killing time. Putting in the required hours. The entire week before Christmas vacation is a joke - they're not learning anything, they're just goofing off. And the entire month before summer vacation is the same - field trips, assemblies, in-class parties. Not much meaningful at all happens.

As far as learning actual valuable skills like math, and reading, and history, and science - it was maybe four hours a day.

Which isn't to say that socializing isn't important for kids - because it is. Being around their peers helps them develop their own sense of who they are. It makes them realize if they're the smart kid, or the funny kid, or the athletic kid, or whatever. It gives them a sense of who they are, and how they fit in to the world, and ideally should help develop their self-esteem.

I'm fortunate that I'm in a rural area, so I think we're planning on trying school as normal next year. I can't imagine what life is like in the urban areas. And honestly, I have made a conscious decision to quit reading the news. It's literally ALL just covid or BLM stuff. I feel like there has to be other things going on in the world, but we're not being told about it. And with where I live, Covid and BLM doesn't really have a meaningful impact.... so I just checked out of current events. I got tired of the fear mongering.

The biggest impact to my life personally has been that they almost destroyed our healthcare system because they made it shut down due to Covid fears that never materialized.

But ya, school was our socialized childcare.

Also, I only had one child because I felt the same way you did. I knew I wanted a kid, but I like to travel and shop and have my down time way to much to have multiple kids. I'm also lucky that she's 14, so the super intense hands on parenting years are over. Now it's actually a struggle to get her to interact with me, instead of her needing me 24 hours a day.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have an issue with this.

I actually can't have either right now due to covid.

Hopefully this won't last but we are all going into recession. We need to bear in mind it's going to be tough and we've actually been having it quite easy up to now no matter how shitty it's seemed. It might be worth thinking about what we can do to help unemployed and desperate women and support those in work now before it really starts to hit.