How can liberal feminists argue that sexism exists if they deny biological sex exists?

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[–]PurpleAmathea 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

They claim that sexism is really anti-femme-ism. Ie the problem is femininity is discriminated against, rather than females.

[–]nonpenishaver 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yep. Back when I was a libfem this is literally what I believed. That sexism and misogyny were rooted in hate/disrespect toward femininity. And if men could just be taught to see femininity as "equal" to masculinity, sexism would be over. Lol.

This belief crumbled when I got into radical feminism and learned how men have always hated biological females, and they enforce femininity on us precisely because femininity is degrading. I only needed to hear this explained to me once before I got it. It was instantaneous. It baffles me that there are grown women who call themselves feminists and still don't get it.

[–]Lemonade_Masquerade 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. And because it's -femininity- that's oppressed, not females, it's obvious how TIMs can use that to their advantage. It's funny, because they always talk about femininity in a way that's more closely related to homophobia than misogyny. "I was always discriminated against for wearing make up!" That's a male thing. Women are pushed -into- make up etc not for doing it. It is devalued because it's seen as feminine, but it's not the same experience.

It also works in their favor because it's easy to paint radical feminists as just as discriminatory for our anti-femininity views. They're individualists, and none of them seem to be able to tell the difference between a criticism of a system and a personal attack. So "I think choices are not made in a vacuum. I think that society has an influence on our decisions and our decisions have an impact on society" gets the response "Why are you shaming me right now?" It's not the things themselves, it's always us. Men liking a feminine thing won't make it accepted. It'll just be seen as something for men. Computer programming is a great example. Or it'll be like cooking, expected by women at home but high paying chefs tend to be men. In the art world, women do crafts, men make art. The only continuous thread is that if it is associated with women, it's less important. After all, if women can do it, then it must be easy. It's unimpressive.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

This sounds like juggling with words, because the problem "femininity is discriminated" exist only because it is females who are discriminated, and because of that - everything that is reminding of famels (or "feminine") is discriminated too. Femme gay is discriminated not because he is femme, but because femme is "like female or reminding about females". Even wording of discriminations says that, I often hear "why you look like a girl" or "are you a woman or something?", it is clearly not my femme looks that are discriminated, but the fact that I am reminding them about women or the fact that man "acts like a woman".

And it is easy to see if person just checks the history. When men were wearing dresses and make up (aristocracy, old Japan or anceint greeks/rome) - women still were discriminated, even if they were looking "manly" by current standarts. Or if person go into the big facility where poor people are working and will see masculine women working there and doing hard work, and yet they are still discriminated, while being "not feminine looking". And the fact that meaning of "feminine" is different in every part of the world as well - somewhere it is make-up and 90-60-90, somewhere it is small feet, somewhere it is long neck, somewhere it is weight above 90 kg, somewhere it is crooked teeth, and so on.

[–]PurpleAmathea 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Oh it's certainly bullshit. By their reasoning butch women don't face oppression, when actually butch women are regularly penalised for not being feminine enough aka not falling into the subservient, decorative role female objects are supposed to fulfill.

But I'm just saying, this is the bullshit that they use as their explanation of sexism. (it's also why they consider radfen criticism of makeup/heels/shaving to be sexist, because it's criticising femininity and that's sexist. When actually radfems whole point is men get to be the default and not have to do anything to be acceptable whereas women are expected to spend hours of time and money policing their appearance to fit within the narrow range deemed acceptable presentation for the underclass.)

[–]MezozoicGay 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

it's also why they consider radfen criticism of makeup/heels/shaving to be sexist

It is almost like if you remove makeup from face you will stop being a woman.

[–]msteacherlady 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Back in the day I'd take this angle as a strategy to help people realize feminism was a good thing and helps everyone. However, at this point, I feel like IT AIN'T WOMEN'S JOB. Fix your own house, men.