all 48 comments

[–][deleted] 45 insightful - 1 fun45 insightful - 0 fun46 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

TRAs behave narcissistically. A lot.

Personality Disorders and Personality Profiles in a Sample of Transgender Individuals Requesting Gender-Affirming Treatments, 2020 (International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health) - "Nearly 50% of participants showed at least one PD diagnosis, with no gender differences in prevalence."

(edit to hyperlink)

[–]Archie 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Just to make it clearer, 50% of them had personality disorders, but it wasn't always narcissism. The details are in table 3.

Interestingly, 10% (5 out of 48) MtF were narcissistic, but 0% of the 43 FtM were.

[–]IStandWithHer 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This! Very relevant. Thank you. I mean, it is obvious from their behavior that this is not just about teenage insecurity, pain, anxiety, etc. This is a cluster. A clusterf*ck.

Sorry. After they went after freakin' r/PCOS I'm saltier than planet Crait.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes. Granted this was a small study (good luck getting another funded anytime soon -- the topic has been kryptonite), but I hope we will see more. Narcissism, Borderline, Antisocial, Histrionic can all have extreme self-focus (though Borderline is more about impulsiveness and self-harm). And a lot of emotional manipulation and symptom overlap. Some clinicians think bipolar can also express as narcissistic rage and easy agitation, rather than the classic mania we picture as one of the poles. We need more data on all of this.

PD behaviors are very common in TRA circles. IME TRAs aren't online to debate or exchange ideas, they're either online acting out their PD, or their enmeshment with a person with a PD.

ETA: Yeah, interesting about the MTF/FTM numbers with Narc. I'm surprised more FTM didn't end up with a Bordeline dx tbh.

[–]emissch 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

watch them attribute and justify the high rate of PDs to being a "coping strategy."

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, wouldn't be surprised.

[–]Riothamus 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You know, their angry responses do remind me of Borderline/Narcissistic explosive rage. They lack a true inner sense of self and they rely on others to reinforce their delusions about themselves.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yep. And when that reinforcement is withheld or challenged . . . look out.

I'm probably biased because I've seen that behavior in real life. But once you "see" it, irl or online, you become very aware of the patterns . . .

[–]Riothamus 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah, did you also suffer a significant other's constant suicide threats? My abusive SO shattered like glass when I stopped putting up with it.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm very glad you stopped putting up with it. That's a special kind of hell.

Long story short -- I had a sib fully trans (SRS) during midlife, with a spouse and children. I now know it was probably AGF and undiagnosed bipolar with a PD (I got three clinical opinions). In retrospect, the PD symptoms were there all along, but intensified with age, and the transing happened suddenly. The intolerance, the rage, the disconnect from reality were all there, but just this side of functional . . . until the trans.

(edit for clarity)

[–]yishengqingwa666 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]emissch 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

oh shit, I've been saying forever now that it's actually borderline that is the most prevalent. bam! "Borderline PD was the most frequent diagnosis in the overall sample."

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. Well, that would help account for the unstable self-identities and threats of suicide.

[–]Lilith_Fair 34 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 0 fun35 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Several reasons I think:

  1. One of their tactics is to exaggerate their vulnerability. Words are "literal violence". Disagree with them and "they'll kill themselves". And when you point out common sense biological differences you're "spreading to a harmful ideology that contributes to the murders of the MOST VULNERABLE marginalized group of people". Throw a totally misleading report on the number of transwomen murdered each year. Now you got a brew of something along the line of literal murder by mere disagreement. Don't you care about their lives? They're human too!!!!

  2. They appropriate mantras of other groups. Feminists used to have the mantra 'Women's Rights are Human Rights". That's where "Trans Rights are Human Rights" came from. They've also co-opted "Black Lives Matter" to "Trans Lives Matter". The feminist one is about rights and the black lives one is about saving lives (from police and other forms of violence). They then conflate the concepts of these two mantras and hence people like you looking from the outside are scratching your heads having cognitive dissonance.

  3. Their entire existence depends on validation from other people so if you don't validate them and play along with their fantasies, they no longer exist.

Edit: changed a word for clarification

[–]IStandWithHer 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely. This is it. They have no activism, no ideological framework so they hijack everybody else's.

[–]Jamiethiel2018 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I sure as hell hope BLM pushes back hard at this clear exploitation of their movement.

[–]Lilith_Fair 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sadly it's not happening. Or maybe they can't push back anyway. This has been going on since before the George Floyd incident.

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Excellent reply and number 3 is a huge sentiment im gathering from the thread. There's a gross double standard at play since everyone else is told "don't base your well being on outside validation" but for TiMs that's literally all they have so everyone being complict in their fantasy is the only way for them to be okay.

Extremely unhealthy and unsustainable behavior that is being promoted by social media and "anti hate campaigns". It won't last imo.

[–]venecia 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

  1. It shuts people up. The less dissent you allow, the less other people will see. They were born male and are used to using their privilege to become the ultimate authorities. There are also aggregators like Russia involved.

  2. The male-led pharmaceutical companies and for-profit healthcare in the USA is also incentivized to keep people from thinking too hard about whether they need to transition.

  3. When your identity is literally based off other people's words and positive validation from the community you ''belong'' to, they literally DO feel like taking that away from them is hateful. That's how entitlement and a need for validation works. If they were so confident in their womanhood, nothing anyone says could take that from them and they could handle dissent.

oh and

  1. They can always pull the ''It'll be your fault if I kill myself'' - quoth every single abusive man when you try to leave, ever

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tech industry is filled with MtF and men who like them, apparently.

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup you put it perfectly, they tied their mental well being directly with constant validation from others. It's funny how normally that behavior is discouraged from mental health professionals and rightfully seen as unhealthy but when it's TiMs doing it the whole world needs to bend over backwards for their emotional well being. Ridiculous and exhausting.

[–]Riothamus 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm male as well. I think TRAs pull this hyberbolic shit because their actual arguments never prevail against science and logic. They can't win arguments unless they blatantly misconstrue the other side's viewpoints, play the aggrieved victim card, and aggressively moderate the "discussion".

[–]sotired 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What reality do TiMs live in that they think everytime someone is slightly concerned about their unfair advantage in a women sports league that it's an attack on their right to exist?

Exactly! I was recently talking to a friend who's "on the fence" about this issue, and they were like "What do you think they should do instead? A separate category for them won't work out..." And I was so angry about the whole thing that I said "Why do they need to participate in competitive sports anyway?" and I was told that "They deserve rights too" and that I'm denying them rights.

Rights to what? Rights to participate in women's sports? If transgender people had attempted to create their own category, I would've supported them. But they've participated and won in women's sports for a long time now, violating our boundaries and being extremely unfair. Why should I do the mental labour of figuring out solutions for people who have no empathy for women? Why am I not allowed to show anger at the oppressors?

[–]salty-tomorrow 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

preach 🙌🏼 I hate the expectation that because women don’t want TiMs in our spaces, it’s our job to find other solutions for them. Also it’s not a human right to compete in sports lmao

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great reply and a trans sports league is actually a compromise I reached with my friend about this but we both know TiMs and TRAs would never accept such a solution. They want everyone but them to do the heavy lifting for them and figure out how to fit them neatly into every faucet and aspect of society. Women are expected to sit back and watch their spaces be taken over and their voices silenced and TiMs just get to sit back and watch.

I wish more people (especially TRAs) thought about this more and tried to think of pragmatic solutions to things like the obvious advantage in sports leagues but instead of using their brains they rather just shame all dissenters and bully women into accepting whatever shit they spontaneously deem "human rights" for the day.

[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Because they're men who want to maintain male privilege while expecting us to cater to their sexual kinks when it suits them.

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lol exactly "wait you don't want to suck on my femine dick? But but- it has nice mouthfeel!!!"

[–]feministunderyrbed 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TiMs are human, they’re just not human females. It’s that simple, or should be.

[–]-thedarkhorse- 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My failure to believe in Islam does not invalidate my Muslim friends.

[–]LilianH 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or "denying their right to exist" or something similar.

[–]divingrightintowork 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Detransitioners are biting back - #DetransPeopleAreRealPeople

[–]Spikygrasspod 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think they're going for being unconditionally accepted as the sex they wish they were. They react so strongly because their position is based on an incoherent conceptual framework. Since the logic is flawed, their only choice is to build and protect with word games.

[–]inneedofspace 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Same reason they piggy back on the civil rights movements for black people, or worst compare themselves to the actual dehumanization of black women (specifically during slavery) or handmaidens, instead of standing on their own two feet they know that they have no real arguments, they're men trying to weed their way into women only spaces to validate themselves that's pretty much the only rights they're fighting for and it doesn't look good on paper, seriously I haven't seen 1 legitimate reason to support there cause you don't need female/women only spaces to feel human create your own spaces. Transwomen are the only group of people who've publicly said "I used to look at my naked sisters body without her knowledge" and received no backlash the only group of celebrities who went public about supporting child rapist into women's prison with or without their penis and still have their careers in tact, why would women any woman want this type of mindset in our spaces that's exactly what we've been trying to avoid.

I rarely see transmen demanding men accept them as men or they're denying their human rights narcissism is more common in men than women so not a big surprise, it's easy to bully women into doing what you want when was the last time you saw transwomen demanding we make prostate cancer gender neutral? Nope they rather women make space for prostate cancer when cervical cancer, ovarian cyst, and actual female issues continue to go ignored do they care they're taking up much needed space and resources? I doubt it because they can't handle they're not women so they force society to play along at all cost, the part that bothers me they acknowledge the inbalance between men's and women's health but pretend there's nothing that can be done about it because they are women. I wish popular feminist/humanist groups would at least make the clear distinction between "gender" and sex if they're going to keep forcing this on us.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That was a new low when they co-opted BLM (having already completely co-opted Pride). I really didn't think they could go any lower. I was wrong.

[–]Irascible-harpy 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, when ignoring pronouns is an act of LITERAL VIOLENCE...

FYI the mod stance is that posts and comments from men are somewhat tolerated, but strongly preferred to go to another sub such as gender critical guys. Adding "AS A MAN" or "FROM A MALE PERSPECTIVE" or otherwise bringing attention to your maleness is a good way to get your post removed.

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dude you just ignored my totally made up pronoun that uses an alphabet that doesn't exist yet and now my spine is fractured in 3 places, thanks a lot.

Oh and about the "AS A MALE" thing I'm sorry that wasnt my intention. I tried to make it more of a disclaimer and put it at the bottom so people didn't think I was trying to give my words more weight.

I know a lot of people here would not engage with a male-created post even if they agreed with the content and out of respect for that I tried to include it in a subtle way for them.

[–]CaliforniGinger 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Like everyone else is saying, because cluster B disorders and because they have no actual coherent argument. The worst thing to do with cluster Bs, by the way, is let them have their way on everything. Those disorders are so destructive that they need strong containment and frequent slapping down, in a sense, to prevent the kinds of damage they do when unleashed - including if you sympathize too much with BPDs they can spiral into ever greater depression for the pats they get.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OMG yes. They can hollow out enmeshed friends, family members, social systems . . . I really think that's what we're seeing with online TRA -- suddenly (circa ten-ish years ago) there was this whole new method for them to exploit empathy and dysfunctionally world-build online.

[–]aqrylix 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're professional DARVO gaslighters

[–]emissch 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Their ideology at its core is bound and entirely dependent by the perception of others. If folks don't go along, they feel they don't "exist." totally the opposite of LGBs who would rather just be left alone.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This drives me fucking insane too. It seems whenever a news story comes up about a celebrity calling TRAs out on their bullshit or “No, you can’t transition prepubescent children” law comes up, some self-righteous idiot types up an article about how “Trans People Have the Right to Exist”. one said they didn’t? There’s a distinct difference between “Women have the right to determine who may or may not be permitted in their spaces” and “Women want TIP dead”. But they don’t see it that way. Any time they don’t get exactly what they want, it’s oppression of the worst variety. They will, without hesitation and with full sincerity, compare themselves to the victims of the most horrifying historical crimes against humanity, and not have the basic awareness to see that “genocide” and “being called ‘sir’” are not on the same level.

[–]FuriousPenguin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw that too and had the same reaction. Eye roll is the only response I have these days. They do it because they know how to twist a narrative to play the victim. Women who want to be left alone end up looking like the villains whole they who take everything from people who disagree with them end up looking like the victims. Those who don't bow down to the supreme leaders will get cancelled after all.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

sToP dEnYiNg ThE eXiStEnCe Of TrAnS pEoPlE

[–]yishengqingwa666 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As if they ever shut the fuck up and stop screeching about their "rights" and "validity".

[–]shveya 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Male entitlement is a helluva drug.

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really interesting replies from everyone. I've defiently been more informed about the psychological whys of TiM behavior and it's a rabbit hole im currently going down lol.

The world won't cater to these people's fantasies for much longer, imo. Their entire idelogy and movement is based on everyone being complict in their demands and the silencing of women. This is not sustainable and sooner or later people will wake up to this, Im very confident in that.