Apparently there's no difference between neo-vaginas and natal women's vaginas and I'm wondering how true this can be

submitted by Questionings from self.GenderCritical

I don't know much about neo-vaginas because I'm honestly not that interested to say the least but I don't know how anyone can say they're indiscirnible from natural vaginas with a straight face.

Do they have a clitoris?

As far as I know it's not possible for them to naturally produce discharge, whether upon arousal or from self cleaning so there's a comparison thrown out the window off the bat.

The vagina is a muscle that a lot of women are able to control and contract. As far as I know neo-vaginas are more comparable to a wound that constantly tries to close up on itself. How can that even be compared to a natal vagina? I'm 100% certain it would never feel the same.

I've seen people argue that lesbians should date transwomen because a neo vagina is just like a 'normal' vagina but literally how? It's missing the two biggest components.

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[–]motionlessoracle 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

So, first off, they're not the same and yes, a gynecologist can tell the difference.

I'd like to put to rest the "wound" analogy, though. After surgery, transwomen do eventually heal. The neovagina doesn't bleed endlessly. However, since the pouch (for lack of a better word) is not being held in tension by all the ligaments and muscles that female vaginas have, it tends to want to atrophy. They have to keep stretching that skin daily or the depth of the pouch will shrink. There is (obviously) no cervix. Just a blind pouch.

(The inside of a female's vagina will also atrophy a bit after menopause unless estrogen is supplemented. That's for a different reason.)

A "clitoris" is constructed using the head of the penis that has atrophied in the absence of testosterone plus some skin to cloak it in something resembling a clitoral hood. There is no clitoral root inside the body and thus no G spot. There are no vaginal rugae or other interior features present in females.

Depending on the surgeon, the interior of the neovagina may be made of mucosal tissue from the bowel, in which case it will self lubricate with the same mucus that is in the bowel, or it is made using the skin of the penis that has basically been hollowed out and shoved into the body. The penile skin variant will not self lubricate. Some neovaginas are a hybrid of penile skin and bowel tissue because the penis was too small to permit much depth.

The urethra is relocated to a hole just above the neovaginal pouch and a crude vulva/labia are created. These will often be refined in later surgeries.

Penile skin often has hair follicles, so the skin must be laser hair treated prior to surgery to destroy them. Many neovaginas do wind up with pubic hair inside, though. Also, the "seam" where the scrotal skin joined together before birth is often obvious between the anus and the entry to the neovagina.

[–]Questionings[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"So, first off, they're not the same and yes, a gynecologist can tell the difference."

Funnily enough one of the reasons why I asked is because I was on a trans subreddit where one of the users said their doctor told them he couldn't even tell the difference. It should be illegal to lie to people like that, especially when it further perpetuates their delusions.

"in which case it will self lubricate with the same mucus that is in the bowel"

Not really similar to a female vagina though. I'd imagine the rate and consistency of lubrication wouldn't change like it does in women. Thank you for the comment though it was very insightful.

[–]Futon_Everlasting 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Given how angry some of these TIMs can get when challenged, would you want to be the gynecologist who points that out to him?

[–]tuesday 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That is an excellent description. I'd like to add two things. They are both a bit gross to think about but honestly, anybody contemplating surgery needs to know this. One is that surgeons are limited how deep they can make the pouch, not only because of how much penile skin they have to work with, but also because a cavity is needed for that pouch to reside, and that cavity is literally carved into the body. Surgeons can only carve a hole 6 inches maximum but most transsexuals opt for four inches.

The second thing they need to know is that, as Motionlessoracle stated, the pouch has no connective tissue which is anchoring the pouch to the internal cavity. So, and here we go with the really gross part, when having sex with someone, if the dildo or dick is too big for the pouch and there is not enough lubricant, then during sex the pouch can roll right out of the body.

So no, there is no way that a neovag could ever be mistaken for a real woman's. First time it comes out, somebody will be having a quite the surprise.

[–]chrysthefeminist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

in which case it will self lubricate with the same mucus that is in the bowel

Since it's bowel tissue, doesn't it smell like feces?

[–]motionlessoracle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It might if you stuck food in it and let it ferment... The bacteria alone probably have very little odor unless there's an unwanted invasion of yeast.

[–]chrysthefeminist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I did a chemistry lab in college once with gastric enzymes. Smelled awful. The enzymes alone, not enzymes plus food.

[–]threefingersam 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, it's a plastic surgery on a guy's penis. That and I've read of a method where the large intestine is involved: https://www.mtfsurgery.net/mtf-vaginoplasty.htm If people say there's "no difference," that just shows their ignorance of female anatomy.

Also the argument that "lesbians should date transwomen" is homophobic and sounds dangerously akin to homosexual conversion therapy. No matter how much a TiM modifies his body, he is still a man.

[–]Questionings[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Also the argument that "lesbians should date transwomen" is homophobic and sounds dangerously akin to homosexual conversion therapy. No matter how much a TiM modifies his body, he is still a man."

I agree completely. My main post however was an argument I had seen, on this website no less, why lesbians should date transwomen. No one is obliged to date anyone for whatever reason The modern world is a circus.

[–]CaliforniGinger 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This argument that neovaginas are just as good as vaginas because they can take a dick, made by so-called leftist wehuntedthemammoth, is what peaked me after stifling questions for years. It is SO misogynistic to ignore the intricate and amazing system that gives birth to every single one of us and compare it to a hole that I found r/GC that same day. Men like David Futrelle who say things like that reveal just how much they see women as objects.

[–]Lady_Montgomery 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A neonvagina is an inverted penis. It’s an open wound that needs to bedialated in order to remain open as it tries to heal and close itself constantly like you would expect from a wound. It’s filled with blood, puss and often pubic hair as well. Reports have been made by trans identified males who have noticed the foul stench of feces coming down there. It has nothing in common with a vagina whatsoever and it baffles me it is referred to as a neovagina.

[–]WrongToy 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In SRS, the head of the penis is refashioned into a clitoris-like object that is supposed to provide sensation. Theoretically it can also provide glandular secretions, although not from the same glands as a bio female. Some SRS incorporates colon tissue that is self-lubricating to an extent.

There's a study that came out two-three years ago showing that the bacterial flora is very different in neovags. Clinicians noted a definite presence of odor that was beyond in quality and quantity over what a typical vagina provides.

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://neovaginadisasters.com/

The sub got banned but had many examples of how srs is really just not very good in the best cases and criminal in the worst.

They actually managed to save a few TiM from making big mistakes.