What if we took a Men's Rights stance instead? Hear me out...

submitted by respectmyidentity from self.GenderCritical

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[–]Bitchcraft 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am against this.

First, it would not work. Woke, liberal feminism is doing exactly what you describe. Of course plenty of men are anti-sexist, but the majority of people who "don't get feminism" don't get it because they have a vested interest in not getting it. Feminism has been doing the iT BenEfiTs mEn ToO thing since forever. It's technically correct, but completely irrelevant. We are allowed to advocate for our interests without first making it some big pity party where everybody else is first drowned in validation, before we dare to take up a bit of space ourselves. What makes you think pandering to the alt-right will make the altright pander to us? PickMes never get anything in return.

Second, feminism, especially GC feminism, is about dignity. Debasing ourselves like you suggest would defeat the point.

TRAs and MRAs are crybullies. Like all crybullies, people get tired of their shit eventually. Like all bullies, if you give in they abuse you even more. Reddit has been dropping in Alexa ranking for a while now. The UK rejected the SelfID law. Detransitioners will eventually sue the shit out of the gender witch doctors.

It's up to us how long it takes. Keep in mind that there is nothing new under the sun.

[–]respectmyidentity[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The article makes great points. I guess the perspective I have is as an assault survivor (who are often forced to sign NDA's) and as a person who was sexually harassed and forced out of my job because of it. Recently I was laid off from a different company (due to COVID allegedly) but also I think in part because I spoke up for women's sex-based rights on the D&I committee, but in my industry, it's heavily trans controlled and influenced. I was not well-liked for rocking the boat. So I'm sensitive to being cancelled because what did I really accomplish if I can't speak, and I can't work anymore? Isn't there some way to say the same thing, convey the same idea, without closing the door entirely?

As an example, I do think it's abhorrent that men's misogyny (especially in the working classes) prevents them from investing in education, and makes them unwilling to enter jobs that are in demand (like nursing and elderly care) because they are perceived as women's work. This is material harm to men (and by extension women). I don't want to fix women's discrimination by having the men do it for us, but I'd also rather have my rights then be right all the time if that makes any sense.

Men need to yield the floor in some cases and give us our own spaces in others. But yet in others, men need to be willing to enter predominantly female spaces. The reason for this is they drive up the value of that work by their presence, which I obviously ideologically oppose. But at least you don't have the sex segregation in professions that disadvantages women due to men's unwillingness to "stoop" to women's work. It can't be women's work if there are just as many men doing it as women. And STEM can't be seen as the uber valuable profession it is now if care work gets some respect and attention.

I risk my personal comfort and safety a lot to stand up for women. And other women see what happens when I do. I don't think that is bringing all women to my side (though I am glad to see JK Rowling was able to turn some). I am a Hillary Clinton personality. A lot of women think I deserve what I get. I just don't know what to do because I am not going to change into some sweet and cuddly woman to make the world happy. I'm a bitch (in the best way in the sense that I have boundaries and convictions) and I don't mind saying so. I'm angry!

[–]Bitchcraft 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are right in that we should avoid becoming a "circular firing squad" that is more concerned with purity of ideology than actually getting things done. Being a single-issue coalition of people that maybe disagree on other issues is powerful.

Courage is contagions. I believe one of the major reasons libfems and women's groups keep giving in to the "validation rain-dance" that currently drowns out absolutely everything is that we have been raised to apologize for speaking ("I don't mean to say x, but ...") and many men have an unconscious habit of dismissing women, even if they would agree to what is being said. As you have pointed out, men could benefit enormously from feminism, but feel humiliated by what this implies for them, like doing "women's work" or accepting that they have emotions. I don't see any other way to normalize women voicing strong opinions by getting out of our comfort zone and speaking up. Breaking the cognitive distortion field is more important than any single issue. We cannot logic people out of something that they didn't logic themselves into.

I'm sorry about your job, I hope you find a new one soon. Stay angry.

[–]respectmyidentity[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I will, I guess I feel like we are asking a group of people who have a lot to lose (and less opportunity) to risk themselves further by breaking the stereotype. I also want to voice opinions, but perhaps it could be useful to highlight opinions that actually do show it harms men. The reason TWAW works is that it harms women, not men. Women will harm themselves before they'll harm men because we are socialized that way (to take the side of men, be selfless). That's what is so insidious. Women feel validated as women when they hurt themselves. They feel like they are being good girls, and look forward to the pat on the head they get from society. Just as men get validation for fulfilling prescribed gender roles for men. Can't we try to take advantage of that as the TRA's do, but in a way that helps women instead of harms them?