all 54 comments

[–]motionlessoracle 50 insightful - 3 fun50 insightful - 2 fun51 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

A "hate crime" is an ordinary crime that is committed with the additional motivation of bigotry. Speaking is generally not a crime. Therefore, speaking cannot be a "hate crime".

The one exception is if you actually do commit a crime while speaking, such as slander, libel, making direct and highly specific threats, etc.

Saying "kill all TERFs" is not a crime, by the way, at least not in the USA. Nor is misgendering somebody. Since they are not crimes, they cannot be "hate crimes". There is no such thing as a "hate crime" exception to the First Amendment in the USA.

My condolences to anyone who is currently living in a country that actually does classify some speech as a "hate crime".

[–]RestingWitchface 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I agree, and I believe this misuse of language is fully intended to confuse and mislead. Speech is not a hate crime, but it can be hateful. However, I don't see these people protesting against the hate and abuse that women receive online on a daily basis. This is not really about hate, it's about controlling speech.

[–]motionlessoracle 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sadly must agree with you. It is about the addictive rush of power and control.

[–]FoxBearAnt 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even slander and libel aren't crimes, at least in the US - they're torts. In other words, the "victim" has to sue and prove that you damaged their reputation (plus what you said has to have been false). Criminal courts have nothing to do with it.

The only speech-related crime really is making threats. Which, ironically, is something TRAs do in spades.

[–]motionlessoracle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Excellent point about the torts. I spoke incorrectly.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's an excellent observation, and a very clear explanation (from a U.S. perspective.)

[–][deleted] 35 insightful - 2 fun35 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Good! I know it sucked, but I'm glad it emboldened you.

In the past few weeks, I've found meaning and relevance in the nightmare of having had a sib trans years ago. It's like, suddenly I have info women might benefit from. The "suck" led to something better.

[–]MadLass 29 insightful - 2 fun29 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

What I find super ironic about these "woke" feminists is how 99% of them would never consider actually dating a TIM. Theyll dance around and hem and haw and how its "not them its me". I lean mostly left but consider myself politically homeless with how far the left has taken PC and cancel culture. Ive never spoken out about how I feel on GC but I drop tid bits and nuggets for my IRL friends to think about. The dating thing is one thing I learned where they all say they couldnt do it.

[–]Realwoman 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

They wouldn't date a TiF either

[–]PostmodernJukebox 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

even if they think its offensive androgyny is uncanny and it makes people uncomfortable. if someone wants to do that its their perogative but they cant expect other people to be into it (let alone DEMAND it the way TIM and TIF do.)

[–]Amazing_Aardvark 27 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Congratulations for speaking up! I hope you gain at least as many new friends as you have lost. I am sure that the more you speak up the more they will come out of the woodwork -- and I bet they will turn out to be better friends :)

[–]Diversity_Racket 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Way to go! The realization that your values are fundamentally different from your friends can be really devastating...personally it sent me into a grieving process. So good for you for putting yourself out there. In the long term, losing a few friends doesn't even compare to how good it feels to live authentically. It might take a while to find those likeminded people again, but it's worth it.

[–]seminolehighlander 27 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

"grieving process" - that is exactly it. I grieved when I realized I was seemingly so far out of the field, to the point where people would consider me dangerous.

[–]FuriousPenguin 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't get it. People who threaten to rape and kill women who disagree with them are not considered dangerous but people who say, "please don't use my loo" are dangerous? I don't get it.

[–]Diversity_Racket 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh totally. It's like you're shedding this idea/concept of who you used to be, and everything associated with that identity, including friends, etc. It takes time to grapple with and it shouldn't be minimized/downplayed. I'm so glad we have this space to share and talk about it.

[–]PostmodernJukebox 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

when i dropped out of college and fell out of hyperwoke spaces i lost a lot of my old friends and it nearly killed me. ive been very depressed since and have done htings i should never have let myself be subjected to. it's so hard to rebuild (or build for the first time) your life when you cant talk about who you are anywhere. too conservative for liberal spaces but too liberal for everywhere else...ugh. it sucks big time.

[–]RestingWitchface 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gosh, that's horrible! Sorry that happened to you. I have a feeling it completely depends what kind of circles you move in. I am "out" as GC, but no one has disowned me even if they disagree, and I wonder if it's because most people I hang around with are 30+ (I myself am late 20s). I would look for friends outside of political circles, and more in social groups revolving around interests and in older age groups. And we are always here online if you want to vent to like-minded people!

[–]PostmodernJukebox 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

eh...i had a few circles once. i have maybe 2 friends anymore, but if either of them knew i was here theyd never talk to me again. i was trying to find new friends when this fucking virus started and ive been trapped in the house since.

if it wasnt for old people i probably wouldnt talk to anyone outside my immediate family on the regular. i always happen to have coworkers in their 50s and up. but thats usually when i'm "too liberal" for everywhere else lol....

[–]Diversity_Racket 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That really sucks. I feel for you. As the other commenter noted, I also wonder if it has to do with the circles you move in. I'm 30 now and my friend group (albeit small) looks so different than what it did just 2 years ago. I'm way more picky with the company I keep - and way more outspoken from the outset so I know where the other person stands right away. There are so many people who do agree with you but it feels like it takes so much longer to find them than other social groups. If you haven't done so, you could try looking up radfem groups in your area. Also, of course, we are here online for you, too. You're always welcome to vent. A tiny silver lining: at least you're not subjected to be in those hyperwoke spaces anymore. :)

[–]PostmodernJukebox 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you know it's funny, i very recently had someone attack me out of nowhere and my aunt told me i should allow myself to be more selective with who i accept as a friend. it can be difficult to tell who is worth my time and energy. after growing apart from my last set of friends (in which i was the only girl 90% of the time...y i k e s) i've been meaning to find people i can communicate and bond with that i'm not afraid to be myself around. i'm always censoring how i feel and making myself smaller for other peoples benefit, just once id love to not have to do that.

:) oh totally! better to laugh with the "sinners" than cry with the "saints" right?

[–]SameOldBS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, it can be devastating and disorienting. I've seen a lot of destructive woke stuff this last couple of years, and realising how fundamentally I disagreed with it was genuinely disconcerting. But being red-pilled by it all has led to me reassessing all sorts of things, including my lifelong allegiance to the left.

[–]writerlylesbian 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The more of us speak up the better. At some point the penny will drop that we're not actually the ones who have the minority opinion on this issue. It's easier for them to pretend that while everyone is too scared to say anything.

[–]PostmodernJukebox 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

the pendulum will swing back.....the liberal stranglehold on the media will finally snap and maybe we can catch it before it goes headlong into crazy traditionalist territory.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

maybe related, someone here posted #Unity2020 earlier, if you haven't seen it

[–]PostmodernJukebox 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

i don't know what that is?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can't see how the media will swing back... reason being, they're all about profit. I see the money-making porn industry to be a huge part of it. Trans interests support and promote pornography and the porn industry, whereas many GC women do not. I think silencing radfem women on social media is at attempt to silence those who question the proliferation of the porn industry. Social media/tech companies will always support whomever supports their money-making industries-- so they'll always side with misogynistic men, libertarians who believe in free-market and trans/pro-kink/pro-porn advocates.
Even right wing men LOVE LOVE LOVE their pornography, so tech companies aren't going to swing back in the other direction any time soon. While they might not like "trannies", they hate radfem "feminists" even more. Right wing government and their "free market capitalism" in the US prevents these companies from having to deal with any oversight.

[–]hellamomzilla 22 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I hope they all step RIGHT UP to have the trans Flavor-aid dribbled into their mouth while some TRA goes on about how the world can only have women and not ciswomen. (Sorry, just watched a documentary about Jonestown and all the cultspeak is so very apparent and connected.)

Also, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that and that your friends turned out to be asshats.

[–]seminolehighlander 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow! Well congratulations. I feel emboldened too, and every post strengthens my resolve. I just told a friend that the only online community I am involved in got banned because of hate and I am ready to have that conversation with her. I told my husband I was a part of the community first. I think it's time to change the face of GC and let people know that compassionate and thoughtful women who aren't full of hatred are part of this movement.

[–]quickbeam 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I honestly feel like people who say things like this have actually never read up on the concerns of gender critical people or the LGB or detransitioning communities. I was never one to "cancel" people even before I read up on these things, but I sort of assumed that J.K. Rowling must have done something wrong before I decided to look into it for myself. I was pretty shocked at what a blind spot I had. I think it's so easy to just assume that trans rights are a continuation of LGB rights and so to be in denial of them is wrong. I hadn't considered the ways in which trans rights could conflict with women's rights or that there were so many unanswered questions surrounding the medical/psychological aspects of transgender people or different types of transgender people. I had the image of Laverne Cox in my mind, or of some nice transman from "Queer Eye." I feel like these informational spaces are very necessary. I'm thinking about how I might talk to a few of my older friends about this who know me as a progressive person and keep an open mind about things. But it really sucks to realize that I'd definitely lose newer or more casual friends if I went public with my views. Especially since I have a fair amount of younger friends who are trans or non-binary. Good people, but very ideologically rigid.

[–]Realwoman 8 insightful - 8 fun8 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

People with vaginas... I've heard TRAs claim that some women are born without a vagina, aren't they real women? So is your friend excluding the women with that birth defect from the conversation? Is she being exclusionary? 🤔

[–]milpathecat 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well done! You're better off without them. I bet at least a few of your friends got interested in the issue.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never gave trans people much thought even while I posted on GC. Now I’m way over that fence and will never look at them the same way again. Until now, I thought right-wingers were a little “out there” when they spoke against “the trans agenda”. I’ve woken up now.

[–]Irascible-harpy 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You've committed a thought crime. Welcome to the gulag.

In 2020 you can be casually racist up to a point but the definition of woman is liable to get you excommunicated.

[–]SameOldBS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a cult. Once I realised that, dealing with my woke ally 'friends' became a lot easier. You're not going to get through to them. You can only hope to get through to the people who either haven't considered the issues before, or those that are uncertain, or need someone else to confirm their instinctual sense that this is all very fucked up.

[–]ComfortableEqual 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Post the Civitas report and ask them to do some reading. I'm sick to death of political activism based on YouTube vids and celebrity opinion.

[–]PassionateIntensity 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]martindc 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transphobia is exactly what they are causing. Women questioning gender are not transphobic and nor do they cause it. The aggressive response from TRAs, the harassment, the abuse and intimidation - that's what causes transphobia.

[–]jelliknight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome to the club, you're in good company here ;) Women who stand up are always reviled. You'll lose some friends, gain others, strengthen some, and inspire others. And more importantly you'll realize you CAN speak up, whenever you choose, and you will be ok.

Stand your ground, you have the truth on their side. Remember the truth only needs to be spoken once to be known. A lot of those women will have doubts now worming into their cult-like belief structures because you're speaking up. You won't hear about it until much later, if they tell you at all.

[–]millicentfawcett 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry this happened. I honestly think the internet has stunted maturity and critical thought in vast amounts of people. There's no nuance, it's just straight in there with the slogans and insults, no shades of grey allowed. There's so many things I love about the internet but if it disappeared tomorrow I think I'd be slightly relieved - perhaps because I was already into adulthood when it really took off and social media became a thing. I know I could do without it if I had to.