Gender Critical and Atheism

leculdesac · 2020-07-01T21:58:06+00:00

Oh, sure. So, to me, lots of terms used in a variety of spiritual traditions as well as science correspond to the same universal truth, which is that there is some part of us that can connect with something a lot larger than ourselves when we radically quiet our minds and connect with our "unborn nature," our "unconditioned nature." This is consistent with Buddhism, mystical Christianity (Christ within), and the science of neuroplasticity.

So, when Paul said, in Christ there is no male and female, or enlightenment teachers refer to some deep part of yourself that is beyond the polarities and conditioning of this word, or 12 step programs talk about a "higher power" and how trusting in that can change a lifetime of destructive behavior, or neuroscientists talk about adult neuroplasticity and how sustained meditation can lead to radical changes in attitude/opportunity, they're talking about connecting with some part of ourselves much greater than worldly identity. It's much greater than our privileged status and even more importantly it's greater than our traumas and victimization.

This is part of what liberation theology is about--when you're radically able to connect to a sense of something larger, you're much more at peace and paradoxically a lot more effective in addressing oppression, because you have a source of strength, open-mindedness, and capacity to not take the messages of your oppressors personally.

To me, gender identity obsession is the opposite of mindfulness. Instead of stopping to connect with something much deeper in yourself, you're running around obsessing about some false "self" you are and how much you want to control other flawed humans' perceptions of you. It's the antithesis of spirituality. All spiritual teachings encourage us to find an inner space away from our worldly identities, and this movement not only is obsessed with creating a social identity through endless attempts at manipulation, but they actually have conditioned their orgasms to it.

Probably not what you expected. I was an atheist when I was very young, but I realized that identifying a peaceful place of connectedness where you live in the "I don't know" paradoxically opens you up to "miracles," meaning, seeing possibilities that were impossible in your prior conditioned world view. So you can call it neuroplasticity if you want and simply commit to meditation--our words are just vocalisms from a bunch of hairless primates, and they point to the same thing.

Good luck.

112223sps · 2020-07-01T23:50:23+00:00

I'm atheist and have been for a very long time. I'm so thankful my parents never took me to church and just let me make up my own mind instead of being brainwashed by religion. I think being skeptical about belief systems from a fairly young age has been a good thing for me. If you can't hear opposing views without throwing a fit, or defend your views without circular logic or just saying 'because that's how it is', then I'm going to have a very hard time taking you seriously or respecting you.

not_sure_what · 2020-07-01T22:10:30+00:00

I've been an atheist my whole life, and I also feel like it applies to a wide range of magically thinking. Including thinking that men can be women.

jkfinn · 2020-07-02T00:04:46+00:00

Religion and spirituality tend to be too upward and inward, psychology too individual & circular, philosophy too abstracted, but the political, or the understanding of power and its doings and undoings is both more concrete, more social, and more engaging & liberating.

RestingWitchface · 2020-07-02T09:22:39+00:00

I'm a Christian, but I have a very analytic way of thinking, and I test all my beliefs. I was very deep into apologetics and read a lot of atheist literature too. I acknowledge that I hold spiritual beliefs that I cannot scientifically prove, but that bring value to my life.

I was brought up in a non-denominational church that was fairly progressive. There were some rules about women not being pastors/elders, although they were allowed to preach. However, women were treated with respect. I didn't see any misogyny or sexual misconduct. I was a tomboyish autistic teenager and I was very much made to feel loved and part of the community. In this church, people practiced what they preached and were kind and loving towards one another, and towards the outside community. They were not judgemental but supported each other to live good lives. They really came through for me when I was going through difficult times.

This has informed my feminism, because growing up, I always saw women treated with respect. It was a shock for me to go out into the world and see how badly women are treated in mainstream society. In my young adulthood, I was led astray by liberal feminist ideas and was in several abusive relationships. Perhaps that was my way of surviving in such a world. It was reconnecting with my Christian upbringing that led to me radical feminist principles (anti-porn, anti-prostitution), and set the standards for the kind of relationships I want to have with men.

When it comes to being gender critical, I think that's where my analytical side kicks in. I believe in science and in differentiating between scientific fact and spiritual/philosophical beliefs. I first questioned the ideology when I saw TRAs pushing for children to transition, which seemed completely wrong to me. I couldn't understand why they would campaign to give children less options. Later, I was peaked by the behaviour of TiMs towards women, and Caitlyn Jenner winning "Woman of the Year" and that famous quote "The hardest thing about being a woman is deciding what to wear". It was clear to me they have no idea about being a woman, and have no empathy for women, despite claiming to be one. I recognised gaslighting and silencing tactics from the abusive relationships I was in, and it put me on the defence. It contradicts everything I believe to be good and right. Furthermore, I believe in truth and honesty.

My own journey in life has been one of going through trials and learning self-acceptance. So when it comes to ideas like "words are literal violence" or taking hormones and undergoing extensive surgeries to become one's "authentic self", it doesn't ring true. I don't believe it's necessarily helpful to spare people any discomfort they might experience, but that instead we should equip people to be strong in the face of challenges.

GCMonsterLady · 2020-07-02T01:41:29+00:00

I’m religious and always have been. It tends to be a point of contention with my feminism but I’ve managed to square it by remembering that our texts were written by men and men are stupid, on the whole. IRL it’s a fairly fundamental part of my day to day but I don’t bring it up a lot in these spaces because I respect that I am likely in the minority. I also find it irritating when fellow religious folks try to shoehorn Jesus into every discussion. I’m here to support women, so I try to focus on that very wide common ground. I respect that many of you ladies disagree on this topic but in pretty much all discussions I find that it simply doesn’t matter.

ZeWombat · 2020-07-02T02:02:19+00:00

I share all of your beliefs, but it never occurred to me to place my lack of belief that men can become women under the umbrella of my atheism. I like it - thank you.

I used to frequent r/atheism back in the old days (last week). Trans issues were brought up a few times and I was astounded by how completely onboard they were with the TRA rhetoric. I think many of them associated any trans bias with conservative christian values and it was therefore denounced.

Lilith_Fair · 2020-07-02T02:31:48+00:00

I'm a Christian, formerly atheist and converted as an adult. But not the evangelical type and I have no interest in imposing my religious views on anyone else. I'll admit I can't completely call myself Radfem because of this and some other reasons, but I support Radfems for many of their causes. But to answer your question: in my view our bodies are a gift from God. That's why we should love ourselves and our bodies, instead of endlessly finding faults with them. God doesn't care if our thighs are too big or our nose is too flat or whatever. In God's eyes, we're perfect the way we were made. For the same reason that it's a gift, we should also take good care of our bodies by eating well and exercising, etc. Our bodies are our temple. Further, our bodies are not something for feeding our vanity or identities. Our bodies are vessels given to us by God so we can use it to go out and do good for the world, help other people, and do what we can to give joy to those who are in our lives. The whole TRAs ideology--puberty blockers, hormones, surgeries--is a rejection of God's loving gift to us. A violent mutilation of something that is good and perfect. A taking of something that is wondrous in the way it functions, with so many things our limited mind still cannot understand (like we still can't cure a lot of diseases, or even figure out how to fight the Coronavirus), and giving it to some doctor with human limitations to attempt to create a Franken-version of the real thing.

I feel the same way with all the Genderism people changing their names too. In healthy, functioning families, our names are a gift from our parents. When we were born, our parents picked names for us with certain hopes for our well-being and future. In some cultures, naming of children is a very serious matter for the family. But now everyone playing the gender game just want to dump all that into the trash with no regards for all those in the family who love them. All they care about is themselves and what they want. It's all very self-centered and narcissistic IMO.

Spikygrasspod · 2020-07-02T04:40:50+00:00

Yep. Couldn't religion because it was implausible. Can't TWAW because it's implausible.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T04:01:27+00:00

I was raised super ultra fundie Christian and about a decade ago went through a horrendous year long mental breakdown and deconversion process. I cannot over-stress how terrifying it was to look into things more deeply than I was "supposed to," but ironically a preacher who wrote a bunch of fiction books in the 1800s (George MacDonald) was all about how faith is not faith if you don't grapple with doubt, so I grappled. And lost my faith. And won a priceless willingness to challenge my beliefs and societal beliefs that has made my life so much better. I do think we all need awe and wonder in our lives, whether looking through the Hubble or talking to trees or looking at metaconsciousness of ants or experiencing weird phenomena when it seems like an animal can read your thoughts.

PurpleAmathea · 2020-07-02T19:19:23+00:00

So I think there's three things:

Being against current trans ideology - I don't think this has anything to do with religion or not it's literally about not engaging in an orwellian level of reality-ignoring where a giant cult gathers together to shame and harass anyone who doesn't loudly chant that the sky is yellow and the grass is red. Thats why right and left wingers outside the cult can mutually agree on this point. (like, you can say that religion and atheism disagree over basic facts like "is there an invisible god" but its not like religion is standing there proclaiming that there's a completely visible god standing right there and everyone can see him and if you claim you can't see him it's because you're a lying, hateful person who is literally a murderer)
Being gender critical, ie opposing associating gender roles with sex - some religions have stronger gender roles than others. I have not found this to be an issue for me personally with my own religious choices, ie I've felt comfortable ignoring gender roles (religiously. societally, I've felt discomfort/social pressure that I needed to overcome).
Radical feminism - opposing all structures of the patriarchy - outside of religions that are explicitly female centered like some modern branches of wicca, pretty much all religions have had too much shaping in the hands of misogynist men through history to not be full of things that are problematic from a radical feminist perspective. To be religious and a radical feminist is a contradiction. However, it is a contradiction I live with by compromising on both instead of being ideologically pure to either. My religion is full of misgyny that I sidestep/avoid rather than dumping the religion entirely as an act of protest (I mean the most radical of radfems would say the same thing about engaging in heterosexual relationship. I cannot call myself a pure radical feminist because I am simply not willing to be radical enough... Whereas I'm comfortable calling myself fully gender critical.)

-thedarkhorse- · 2020-07-02T19:38:43+00:00

Interesting to note that my post on reddit attracted mostly atheist replies and this one has more Christian replies despite I am assuming the same audience.

WinterWoman · 2020-07-02T13:09:46+00:00

Im an Athiest and Conspiracy Theorist and I believe the government is distracting us from "Real Issues" by always bringing up race, religion, sex, gender during election.

Meanwhile we get fucked in the ass with regressive political reforms, change of healthcare rights, abortion rights, human rights, etc.

Thank god JKR brought up GRA issues, which none of the media was reporting on, the media spent all this time reporting on TRAs only. JKR pointed out how TRAs were fighting against Womens GRA rights! See where the money flows

Complicated-Spirit · 2020-07-02T18:27:37+00:00

I am Christian. Anglo-Catholic. I remind myself what my priest once told me: “Jesus trumps Paul [the Apostle]. Jesus was God. Paul was a servant of God. Jesus was the Word. Paul was a guy with an opinion.”

Personally, trans ideology resembles the worst failures of religion to me, because it IS a religion - and the worst variety: a cult. Don’t question. Don’t read those books. Don’t talk to those people. If they don’t agree with you, cut them off. Only listen to us.

But they also represent the worst streams in that they try to insert their movement’s tentacles as far as they can into politics and even to influence science. My priest and I are both in agreement that Christians trying to get into heaven by banning gay marriage on the political level, for example, is not only a waste of time, but it’s only going to bite them in the ass in the end. How exactly are they going to “win souls” by forcing people who AREN’T their religion to follow its rules anyway? Do these “Religious Right” people think that if they ban gay people from marrying each other, all the gay couples are just gonna be like “Whelp, guess we don’t have a choice anymore, let’s just march en masse down to the River Jordan and get baptized”? No, because that’s stupid. They’re just going to resent you even more. And they - the Religious Right - are aware of that, which means that this isn’t about religion at all - it’s a power play, plain and simple.

Same thing with TRA. They want into our bathrooms, saunas, etc. and to dictate our language and even our own bodies and how we can talk about them to us because they want to lord their victories and self-validation over us. Just like some televangelist with a ten-million-dollar jet will cry about “anti-Christian persecution” when he’s forced to pay taxes for his mansion, a TiM will scream “BIGOTRY” when he is denied a genital waxing service from a females-only salon.

Likewise, science itself is seen as an oppressor that must be silenced. “Either you teach creationism or admit you’re biased!” How is that any different from “Either start telling people that sex is a mere arbitrary designation applied at birth for no reason or admit you’re a bigot!” In fact, TRAs are worse in that respect, because while universities can research evolution free of harassment, they can’t examine the psychological causes of dysphoria, detransitioners, etc. with TRAs shutting it down.

Lastly, shit religious expression concerns itself with, well, shit. The “Religious Right” in the US has somehow talked itself into believing that no one gets to be a friend of Jesus unless they actively support the rich, oppose feeding the hungry, deny climate change, are explicitly racist, and are willing to look the other way at sexual perversion on the part of men. Charity, compassion, self-restraint - posh on all that. Meanwhile, TRAs insist they’re just out to help people with dysphoria, but actively oppose any attempts to do so outside of their “transition or suicide” dogma, demand central focus in feminism and even in racial justice concerns, force their way into women’s spaces, demand the policing of language, openly support cancel culture against female victims of violence and WOC, defend pedophiles and rapists if they claim to be one of their own....it goes on and on.

GenderCritical

MODERATORS