Argument with boyfriend last night about Reddit's censorship of women, and he called me a transphobe

submitted by sosorreal from self.GenderCritical

Yep. Was going to break up with him but I guess I'm okay with submission? I do not know. I feel helpless. I feel insane. I do not understand this world we live in where biological sex is offensive / hate speech / transphobic. Where women just aren't allowed to disagree, where no one can disagree with the trans rhetoric. Where it's transphobic to say "hey, we should do more research on this before we start transing kids."

Am I fucking crazy? Am I bigot? Am I bad person? I literally wanted to die last night because I could not tell up from down. I don't think I'm a bad person. I've spent a lot of time and thought critically about this. I care about everyone. I am on the left, I am progressive but there is no way I can look at the current transactivism and not see that it's regressive. And yet...

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[–]FlickingMarvellous 41 insightful - 3 fun41 insightful - 2 fun42 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

You absolutely are not a bad person, but I’m not surprised you wonder if you’re crazy. It’s incredibly hard when otherwise rational people suddenly start spewing pseudoscience.

I’m in a similar boat to you, but with over a decade of marriage behind me. We’ve been sleeping in separate rooms since the JKR thing, and... I really don’t miss him, but I’d miss my house and animals if I left. No idea how it’s going to play out for me. Fingers crossed it turns out well for you.

[–]sosorreal[S] 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Wow, that is rough. I suppose I am lucky that he and I aren't so linked up. I stayed with him last night mostly because he's all I have, and I care about him. But when I left this morning, I wondered if I'd ever be back.

[–]FlickingMarvellous 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Honestly, in your situation I’d be out of there.

I know what you mean about caring for him: I care for my husband, he’s not a bad person and we’re friends. Definitely feels more like a housemate than a spouse, though, these days.

[–]sosorreal[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

ugh, I hate it, yeah. It sucks to not be able to talk to the person you're with. I feel like I can't really be myself because I'm filtering this huge part of myself.

[–]yishengqingwa666 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I hope you got all your things out of there. Be DONE with him.

[–]sosorreal[S] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

just left two silk pillow cases behind... because taking the pillow cases off would've been painfully obvious lol.

[–]yishengqingwa666 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good for you, you can be free from that parasite! Do whatever the hell you want to do, and he can rot. You are loved, little sister.

[–]nonpenishaver 33 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I'm sorry your boyfriend thinks you don't have a right to talk about reality.

[–]sosorreal[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thank you!!

[–]TeaAndCigarettes 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You sound like you're being gaslit. You're asking yourself all the questions someone does when they're being made to believe that reality is different then what their senses are telling them.

I would not tolerate being in a relationship with a man who would tell me my beliefs make me transphobic. I don't even tolerate trying to be FRIENDS with those men let alone trying to be romantic with them. Depending on how long you two have been together and the depth of your relationship and connection I would try to find some middle ground but if he is trying to force you to cede opinion or convince you that you're something you're not then it's time to move on.

[–]sosorreal[S] 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

The consensus we reached last night was to just never talk about this, but this is very important to me and I'm a passionate and honest person, so it isn't exactly easy for me to just be quiet. It feels like I'm being silenced. He just will not agree with me, will not look into it. I feel like if he actually researched this, he would come to the same conclusion (like any rational human would), but he refuses because he thinks he will never agree. So I'm not really sure where that leaves us.

[–]TeaAndCigarettes 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's hard for me to say what to do because I would honestly drop his ass. If a guy told me "Hey, never talk about this thing important to you, bigot." I'd walk. Honestly, I feel like if he genuinely cared about you and ACTUALLY though you were being hateful he'd be trying to make you see the light at least because he cares about you. He's not even doing that he just wants you to shut up. That's fucked.

[–]Veneficca 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Imagine a future with someone who always buys into media/online soundbites and slogans without thinking for himself or doing research. It would drive me crazy.

If your husband was disabled and was passionate about an issue hurting disabled people, how would he feel if you contradicted him without looking into the issue and then silenced him about it?

[–]sosorreal[S] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

wow, that's a really eye opening point. shit, thank you

[–]badMADam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or being with a person who never takes your views seriously enough to even look into them but just keeps insisting he is right. Do you think that person really sees you as an equal?

[–]usernamezerozero 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I say leave before you become enmeshed with someone who doesn't share your values. I told my husband that this one area where we can't "agree to disagree." I still feel like he is humoring me and secretly thinks he married a transphobe, even though I have articulated my stance and shared a wealth of information. I am deeply entrenched in my marriage/family, so I cannot leave with the same freedom.

[–]sosorreal[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I really do appreciate this perspective. I'm going to think long and hard about it. I'm taking a few days off from him to settle down and deal with what's happened here. I feel like I'm being so dramatic, but seeing and experiencing the very real censorship of women has profoundly affected me. I still feel sick, my insides are shaking, and I broke down crying yesterday because I'm just scared, and sad that this is really happening.

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Frankly there are too many people cutting off loved ones over political arguments at the moment so I won't encourage it. That's what cults do.

I personally think it's very rare for anyone to change their mind in the middle of an argument. People get defensive, this is why he's saying he refuses to research it. His just sticking his heels in. Mostly people rethink after feelings have settled down. So say your piece and leave it.

[–]sosorreal[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thank you, this is what I have done. I don't want to villianize men and in particular, my man. He's proven he's respectful and sweet otherwise, and conversations since have shown we are both trying to meet more in the middle. Which I think is important for this whole movement -- we have to work together.

[–]yishengqingwa666 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seems blatantly obvious there is no "us". It leaves HIM in the dust. Alone. As he deserves.

[–]DorothyGale 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the long run that isn't going to work unfortunately. It will eat away at you. Try organising it all in your head before trying again. Avoiding the subject is really just storing the row up for a later date.

[–]threefingersam 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Biological facts are now hate speech, huh? it doesn't look like you said anything bad. these days, people don't bother to distinguish between disagreement and hate. sorry to hear you had such a rough night.

[–]CaliforniGinger 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I had a lot of arguments with my husband when I found GC. He kept telling me it was a hate sub and after I backed up all my views with solid facts he said well it was a sub for man hatred. I forced him to look at some of the cisprivilege is a lie and thatneverhappens stories and he tapped out super quick, said they were making him sick. I asked him whether we were a hate sub or a righteous anger sub. Eventually, after reassuring him that I wasn't planning on going full man hater and dumping him, he was better able to listen to me and is a TERF now, though still uncomfortable reading our stuff.

I think men are often a lot more easily upset than we realize (John Gottman's research proved they tend to physiologically "flooded" and unable to think way quicker than women do), so arguing in a way that is aware of that can help.

That said, if you give it a period of time and he refuses to discuss it at all and says you're a bigot, then dump his ass and ENJOY LIFE!

[–]aldoushuxleyghost 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This. When I got into the GC sub years ago my husband lost it the same way. Had to do a lot of reassuring, now he is totally on board and a giant terf.

Monday he knew about the gc ban before I said anything and came to comfort me. Don’t settle for man who doesn’t validate a core personal belief you have.

[–]rusalka 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It would be so much easier to just submit to the trans cult, but once the veil has been drawn back and one thinks critically about things, their whole ideology falls apart. It most definitely is regressive! I would be happy enough agreeing to disagree with the ontological concept of an innate “gender identity”, the same as I politely disagree with people’s religious beliefs, but to have it enforced as the default view, with all other opinions deemed as hate, is absurd. It is hard not to feel crazy at a time like this, though, especially with the small sanctuary of sanity the GC subreddit provided being stripped from us. But you aren’t alone. <3

[–]Syphii 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are better off single than with a man like that. You're not a bad person or crazy for caring about other people. You deserve better.

[–]WinterWoman 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Your boyfriend is a piece of shit. Its really upto you whether what he said makes or breaks your relationship.

For me it only weird me out that he was so willing to call you a transphobe before even listening to what you had to say...i dont think he means you harm, i think he is definately brainwashed....

[–]WillowCreek 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not crazy dump the bf sis!

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Is sounds like you've reached peak trans!

I can't speak to the boyfriend issue, since we're different people . . . but if you feel passionate about this, how long will you feel healthy and sane in a relationship that doesn't support your core values? Maybe something for you to think about . . .

[–]sosorreal[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

probably not very long...

[–]yishengqingwa666 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

DUMP HIS ASS. Don't waste any more of your precious life or energy on this male misogynist, gaslighting piece of shit.

KickHimOut2020

[–]sosorreal[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

thank you, these are things I need to hear. I really couldn't bring myself to talk to him today. I just... don't wanna

[–]yishengqingwa666 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Block him everywhere, sis. Queen energy (yes, I love FDS, lol).

[–]aldoushuxleyghost 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And you don’t have to. He’s the one that needs to step back and realize he’s being an asshat.

[–]floaker 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Man insults girlfriend while defending other men. Not a keeper. If you talk to him again, ask him if, now that he's single again, will he be ready to enjoy some lady dick? Or is he only transphobic in the bedroom?

[–]sosorreal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

only transphobic in the bedroom

hahaha

[–]SameOldBS 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not a bad person. You just need a boyfriend who isn't an asshole. Seriously, the biggest favour you can do yourself is not give anything of yourself to men who aren't 100% on board with women's rights. Don't let him gaslight you - you know what is real and what is regressive.

I'm on the left too, but there's so much about 'progressivism' that's just lazy, ill-conceived BS that I'll probably end up voting the other way one of these days.

[–]PlannedParrotHood 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not a bad person at all, the whole world has just gone insane and its trying to take us down with it. I personally think you should break up with him and find someone else to stay with if you can't live on your own right now. Do you have any friends or family you can turn to?

[–]AngryRadish 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good grief. He obviously hasn't thought about this critically and seemingly isn't willing to plus it shows a lack of empathy for parties other than himself. I wouldn't stay with a man who would resort to name calling before trying to understand his partner. It just shows immaturity all round.

[–]DorothyGale 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I sympathize and you are in no way a bad person. I recall having a screaming row about this with my partner a few years back (around 2014/15) ending with him leaving the house and me crying having been called a bigot etc. It took a few days to recover from and some organisation of research by me to show him what I meant. Years later he sees it all. We are gen x though (just to give you an age idea) and this wokethink isn't necessarily as ingrained in our friends etc. I don't know if this is just the initial knee jerk reaction from your boyfriend and whether he is capable of seeing your point of view eventually but I can honestly say it would have ended my relationship if we weren't at an understanding stage now. It's too fundamentally important to my feminism (partner always knew I had strong thoughts in that area) and we have kids! I couldn't be submissive or submit my opinion to his on this, even to keep the peace. Give it time, try to explain in a more organised way (visuals helped oh and stats, my partner does love numbers :) ) and take it from there. If he thinks silencing women en masse is ok, is he someone you want to spend your life with? This is a question you should be asking yourself now. But give him a chance first, even a few chances the peak isn't always reached instantly for people but if anyone really thinks about it (and I do mean employing critical thinking) it usually ends with more questions and in turn seeking more answers - that's the key, just the facts.

[–]sosorreal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

thanks for this. I got him to agree that if I wrote an essay about this, he would read it. I agree that facts are important, it's the whole basis for my "belief". He is sweet in ways and tries, so I'm hesitant to completely write him off, but long term I do think this is too important to overlook.

[–]badMADam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

He is sweet in ways and tries

Really? Why is it then, the moment he would truly need to show he respects you, he fails so miserably in doing so? Acting sweet and all that is easy, but it is through actions like this that he shows how he truly respects you as a person with their own thoughts. Or does he truly think you are an awful bigot or you are not as intellectual capable as he is and therefore you can't evaluate the things going on in a way he could and so he just doesn't need to believe you?

[–]sosorreal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, I've wondered this and I did tell him that I am fully capable of thinking for myself and coming to a different conclusion than him, and in fact in my initial research I did try to agree with him. But I just don't, and it doesn't mean I'm hateful or a bigot or transphobic or anything like that. I don't know what he thinks anymore, we just agreed to not talk about it at all but that he would read an essay if I wrote one (which I am pretty sure I will do because this is really important to me). I think that if he still wouldn't change his mind, that it would be over because I don't want to have kids with someone who believes the current trans rhetoric.

[–]badMADam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It is crazy that you would need to put in so much effort (writing a fucking essay so he doesn't need to do anything by himself?) instead of just being able to give him your points and him either thinking them through on his own like a grown up, or doing some extra research if he really wants to refute your points or if he is sceptica. Actually it is okay to be sceptical of an opinion from a person you respect, but how would you react in this case? Go doing some research if the topic is important to you and then discuss it with your partner maybe or resort to name- calling. But hey, at least he agreed to read an essay you made about it. I am curious how he would react to the essay. But thb even if he finally saw your points I would then leave this person, as I wouldn't see it as my job to "educate" any person with so much effort on anything important to me because they refuse a normal discussion.

I mean writing an essay for yourself is great, but lol at his "generosity" that he might read it, how very courteous of his highness?

[–]sosorreal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, all good points! I don't know, he just said that he WOULD NOT change his opinion that transwomen are women, and he thinks I'm trying to "convert" him, but it's just... I don't understand why he can't see what is obvious truth?!

[–]DorothyGale 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let me know if you need any help finding things - or let us all know. I'll help where I can finding resources for you - tackle it point by point, prisons, sports, language obfuscation and so on. Good Luck - and we are here to help you in this.

[–]jelliknight 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Boy, BYE"

Don't stay with a misogynist who insults you. You deserve more

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dump his ass.

[–]RoundFork 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hey, I’d just like you to know that you’re helping others by posting this, thank you. Previously, I wasn’t able to articulate why I broke up with a decent guy years ago.

He already had an opinion on something he never researched (but I have) and won’t give me the opportunity to change his mind. That’s not a relationship anyone should suffer. If you love someone, you don’t dismiss them.

[–]sosorreal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you, yeah. I'm still thinking about it. With him for now, but very unsure about it. I'm going to really spell out my perspective and if he still thinks transwomen are women, I will probably have to end the relationship.

[–]badMADam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Am I fucking crazy? Am I bigot? Am I bad person? I literally wanted to die last night because I could not tell up from down

So you actually do care about other people and just want to be fair to everyone? How can you think you are a bad person then, even if you hold an opinion that might offend some. On the other hand how can your boyfriend make you feel so bad because your opinion is different than his? An opinion about a topic that deeply affects YOU as a woman? If he had even an iota of real respect and would really see you as an equal he at least would be willing to you and discuss the topic rationally, without name-calling and without gaslighting you.

[–]dancing_with_durga 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My husband cares about women. When I started showing him some of the gender critical stuff he got it INSTANTLY. He is now more outraged than me (if possible). It is possible for men to understand and empathize with women, even if many of them choose not to. Don't settle. There are kind men out there who will see you as a human.

[–]zephyranthes 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The website KiwiFarms has a thread titled "Tranny Sideshows on Social Media". Fair warning, the pictures there are not safe for work and possibly for life. Show them to him. Show him the fat pedo Jonathan Yaniv. Show him this page. If he still says you're no different from these things -- well, you know what to do.

[–]TherealSimbul 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You're not a bigot. You're not a bad person.

Tell him that since he believes you're a transphone, you're breaking up with him. After all, he doesn't want to fuck a transphobe, does he? Or be seen in public with one, right? Tell him you hope he and his next girlfriend --a transwoman, of course -- will be very happy together.

[–]Delia 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Show him terfisaslur.com, the abuse levelled at lesbians and see what he makes of trans lesbophobia.

[–]astroTERF 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

my husband told me "its normal to be afraid of something that has given you every reason to fear it" i wouls rethink your relationship with anyone who would side with misogyny your not a bad or crazy or hateful person they are gaslighting you

[–]plush 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol dump him