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[–]beris😎[M] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

Wow, I wonder why no trans people want to post here, surely it can't be the GC crew misinterpreting every single thing they say to use them as a sounding board for their own anger and frustration about them, regardless of whether or not it's relevant to the conversation in any way besides "trans person". You have plenty of spaces to rant about how badly trans people affect you on a day to day basis, if you can't put in a modicum of effort here to interact and have a conversation with them and instead just see this as a sanctioned space to unload all your anger directly at them, it's no wonder there arent trans posters here anymore.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

As if their comments don't exude anger too or as if they didn't misrepresent our arguments.

I don't know why you keep acting as if they don't come here because we are such lying and unredeemable jerks. This sub was created because the reddits administrators banned the old one for "transphobia". Most QT users celebrated the moved and they didn't want to come here. It's not a secret.

Anyway, at 99% of the internet you have to walk on burning eggshells not to offend them, while they are free to say the most vile things. But I guess a little forum that is little bit less biased in their favor is too much for them to handle.

Edit: I don't know what the removed comment said, I just thought this needed to be said.

[–]beris😎 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Anyway, at 99% of the internet you have to walk on burning eggshells not to offend them, while they are free to say the most vile things. But I guess a little forum that is little bit less biased

You, specifically (since literally no other mods even visit besides peaking who might show up in two weeks again and see all this if we're lucky) moderated GC so little that at least one poster said they didnt even care about the rules and nothing happened. You don't think MAYBE at least in part that has something to do with a lack of trans posters? You gave me mod because I said I was unhappy with that, you can't be upset that I'm acting on it now. The banned poster is one of two who has been so vitriolic I can scroll their post history here and find rule breaks like 6 posts back, they dont get the benefit of gentle interpretation. There are countless radfem spaces on the internet she can use to vent her frustrations, but this should not be one of them.

Edit - to be clear I dont think you're wrong in that a lot of trans people have an active do not interact policy for themselves regarding radfems, but clearly not all do as sometimes trans posters do show up, but surely even you can admit that if theyre constantly met with longtime posters here who post in a way that actively conveys that they're unwelcome, they're going to leave.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[M] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Hi Beris, sorry I’m not more active and I appreciate your efforts. You’ve done more moderation of GC posters (and in general for awhile) than anyone has. <3

I feel like GC here is so jaded, they often come out really strong and scare people away. The moderated poster in particular should just post this stuff on Ovarit and not here I feel like. I guess there might be something satisfying to say it to trans person, but it doesn’t help us keep people around.

[–]adungitit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My comment directly addressed their statements, explained why they're misogynistic, and why they further widespread patriarchal ideas. If the only thing making these rationalisations bannable is "but it made them feel bad", then we're back to the usual "men get to say whatever they want, and women should nod out of kindness" that's present in literally every other community. A radical feminist space will and should rip apart misogynistic ideas, and the fact that trans people are completely unable to adapt their ideology to a non-misogynistic framework speaks volumes. Like, sure, getting criticised for misogynistic ideas isn't the end of the world, but it is when your only response to long rationalisations of how what you said is nonsensical and actively hurts women is "women be hysterical".

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, thanks so much for not challenging the claim I did so little modding. So glad, I quit being a mod.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi BiologyIsReal! I’m very grateful for the work you did as a mod and I’ve always expressed that! I don’t just feel like it’s helpful for me to insert myself into this disagreement between you two that has gone on for like a year. It would just cause more drama. Sorry if that offends you… <3

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, I saw who the banned user was and I can imagine what she could have said (I don't want to make assumptions since I didn't see her comment). I still stand for what I said, anyway, especially because she only comments once in a blue moon. And, really, yo do realize that GC posters receive way more push-back on most of the internet than what QT posters receive here. As I said, in many cases on the internet, or even irl, GC hear far far worse, particularly if they are women (QT has no problem recognizing them without pulling any pants down, funny that). For some women saying GC ideas has come with real life consequences, e.g. getting fired or actual violence (rather than just the typical threats). Yet GC keep discussing against all the odds. However, you say QT posters cannot handle some push-back in a small anonymous forum where we still have not to contradict how they perceive themselves? Sorry, but I am not impressed.

So, because I made you a mod it means I can never disagree with you?

Look, this fairy tale that I was such a biased mod that never bother to moderate is getting old. And it's not true. I was the most active mod by a long shot. Grixit disappeared as soon as he made me a mod (I should have never believed him and accepted his offer), quetzal showed up exactly and peaking was mostly absent and peaking absences had the worst timing, too. There never was so many QT posters here. Most threads were made by the spammer playing devil's advocate (you know the one) and who I must have banned dozens of times; but it seems that Spammer has gotten bored. And I was so "biased" that when a user complained about me to the mod mail, quetzal was forced to admit that I've been fair. I was so biased that I had Flippy calling me a rapist apologist (or something like that) because I warned him off in the very same thread where circling was asking for me to be removed from the "mod team" (i.e. just me). I was so biased I even offered you being a mod. Honestly, I wish I was as harsh as every single QT poster claims I was. It would had been easier for me.

Anyway, of course, what else an ex-biased mod like me could say? After all, the biased mod is going to defend herself against all the evidence. But I have to ask you, beris, if you think I was such a biased mod, why are you following my steps. You keep being very open about how you think GC posters are so mean and of course QT ran away from such hostile environment. Given that there is no GC mod anymore (no, peaking doesn't count), don't you worry that GC posters just leave? Well, I guess that is a way to attract QT posters. Although it may not work since GC posters are usually more resilient than that. And whatever the result, it doesn't change the fact you are, at least, as biased as me, beris.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I guess I'll start at the end and work back - I hope I am as biased as you, because I don't think you were biased in the first place. That was never the issue, the issue was you just never took the kid gloves off, and seeing as a single post from a qt poster is gonna elicit 5 to 10 times the responses from gc posters, statistically they'd just be overwhelmed by under or unmoderated posts directed at them.

I understand you were put in a position where you had to moderate everything because no one else did. But at the end of the day when you made me mod I got access to the backlog of reported, untouched posts and holy shit it's a lot. If you were overwhelmed before then Idk why you didnt consider asking for help sooner. And if you weren't overwhelmed then there isn't really an excuse, is there?

And to add to the 'undermoderation' claim, at worst (outside of the spammer obviously and a few obvious, no brainer bans) you never punished the bad behaviour in any meaningful way. Put yourself in the shoes of a new qt poster who has just shown up and are trying to post but are getting passive-aggresively blamed for every sin every trans person has ever committed. Heaven forbid they get insulted, and then when you force the gc poster who did it to edit their comment they just edit in a dogwhistle instead (editted out my mean comment I still 100% stand by etc) and life goes on. Of course there isn't going to be a base of qt posters sticking around like that, it's just self harm at that point.

So yeah, Idk bio, you got the shit end of the stick, but you absolutely could have done things differently. End of the day, what's done is done, if trans posters show up now they'll at least have a better chance of sticking around than before, for whatever that is worth. I don't want to argue about your moderation any more than that, because i do legitimately feel bad that you took the brunt of it while the sub was the most active, but you really have to admit at some point that active rulebreaking was reported and ignored and that clearly drove away the small qt base that was here.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hearing opposing views, most of which doesn't contain any kind of insult, is not self-harm.

I don't need to imagine how a QT poster could feel by coming here. I've been in the minority position in a hostile environment in another forum for a very different issue and I still stuck around. I could argue that is a form of "self-harm" for me to keep coming here to argue with random people who don't listen, too. And as I said, just asking questions about transgenderism is enough to attract a rage storm to you in a good bunch of the internet. Don't you think many GC posters knows exactly how is to be in the minority position? Anyway, although moderation is important, when discussing any controversial subject that has been debated to death, some anger is going to be expected. So, I don't know what QT potential posters, expect besides being treated as royalty like everywhere else. Maybe I should be more sympathetic, but I cannot. They keep acting as if they were the most oppressed people in the world when they get everything served in a silver plate. And it's not like my sympathy would be reciprocated.

Furthermore, you're assuming I never looked for some potential mod before you. I did it in private, but I got rejected. And it's not as I had some options to choose from. About the "unmoderated" posts, I saw them. We're surely going to disagree; however, if I ignored them, it means I though they didn't merit action or I left them to other mods to decide (yeah, useless hope, I know). That being said, if I treated GC users with "kid gloves", so I did with QT. I did not banned circling, for instance...

Anyway, I didn't burn out for workload since there wasn't much activity here most days. I did because, although I tried to honor my value for fairness, I resented every single time I had to mod in QT favour. I just didn't sign up for that. I became a mod because there was not an active GC mod and I wanted thing were more balanced. I didn't expected that I'd be doing QT mod's job because they couldn't bother to show up. Plus by arguing with QT and trying to stay civil after reading so many infuriating and absurd takes, not to mention all the lies. It was because I absolutely disagree with the rules that make impossible for me to speak honestly; a rule that is not going away ever because QT get more offended by the truth than whatever hideous and dehumanizing insult that anyone could think of. Plus I keep getting increasingly frustrated by real life development of transgenderism (that in spite whatever trans identified people says it has a big impact on so many people because everyone must accommodate their every wish regardless of the consequences) alongside other issues, which I won't mention nor detail so not to get too political.

[–]rainynights[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I will eventually get to reading through and replying to all of the messages in this post that I haven't gotten to but I do not have the time nor will to do it all at once en total.

Unfortunately I did not read the reply in time. I'm fine with people being angry or wishing ill on me as it only shows the nature of their own character. I am no stranger to individual trans people being equated to rapists, etc despite the accused having no connection or knowledge of any of the events in question. In fact, I believe that was much more common in the past than it is now. You get used to it. Eventually one learns the truth that some people's lives will always be defined by an unhealthy negative fixation on trans people and that energy needs to be released somehow since everyone is human. That was the case in the 1980s and still rings true today. That is OK and after experiencing that energy from enough people over time you realize that they are only affecting their own selves with that energy since it will ultimately change nothing about how trans people live their lives. However, if the overarching nature of this forum is just people airing out their frustrations, you are right in that I do not have the time to stick around for that. Discussion in a conversation framed like that is just as futile as women conversing in a forum of men who have a grudge against all women in general -- of course every women has committed a sin again maledom in that distorted view of reality. If a women disagrees with any of their points then her humanity is cast away from her and she is nothing other than the caricatures that exist their futile machinations.

Everyone is human with different starting points. It is human nature for people to say that if someone doesn't agree with all of their view of reality (or wishes for how you live your life despite having no stake in it; everyone has something to say for free about how people should live their lives better despite not experiencing their reality :-)) and has some level of self respect, then they must not be a good person or lacks empathy for a large swath of people. That is a tale as old as time that will happen in debates much more important than about some measly trans people.

I don't think society will ever fully get past this issue and trans people eventually just realize they need to let go and live life. Those that are trans-fixed with this issue will always want to get TS women to throw nuance to the wind and admit that they are a man or to have them utter the mantra of "natal male" as a greeting to everyone they meet and that will not change. Trans people will continue on and shoulder being fake tricksters with a proclivity to rape who crawl out of the chasms of hell just fine. I will always want the best for those of us that are "demons, imps, and mutants" as eloquently described by a Florida lawmaker recently. In my life I have met some wise older trans women who survived times much worse than what we enjoy today. A common piece of advice is to never let other people tell you how to live your life and that society will always see trans women as less-than when compared to non-trans people. I still believe that today. You cannot convince someone to believe that you are a real person who has dignity and is not an emulation if they will always want to believe that they know everything about you better than you do yourself and everything is figured out (perhaps transsexuals are merely experiencing hysteria, hmm). If only life could be so simple.

Despite all of this, debate and sharing perspectives is always fun.

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Discussion in a conversation framed like that is just as futile as women conversing in a forum of men who have a grudge against all women in general -- of course every women has committed a sin again maledom in that distorted view of reality. If a women disagrees with any of their points then her humanity is cast away from her and she is nothing other than the caricatures that exist their futile machinations.

Interesting example...

[–]adungitit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

surely it can't be the GC crew misinterpreting every single thing they say

If a person makes misogynistic statements and claims rooted in patriarchal ideas, then it's up to them to distance themself from them once someone rationalises how misogynistic they are. Trans people consistently fail to do that, and instead double down on just calling women hysterical Karens. I already explained in detail why complaining about women having rights in response to feminist feedback is misogynistic, but you did it again anyways, and also got me banned for...what, exactly?

regardless of whether or not it's relevant to the conversation in any way besides "trans person"

Um, I literally quoted the exact words and directly responded to them. They or you are free to address criticism of your personal statements, but you don't get to pretend that my extensive reply was just a bunch of random letters and slurs, because that is objectively false.

if you can't put in a modicum of effort here to interact and have a conversation with them

Like writing whole textwalls directly addressing their claims and why they're problematic and misogynistic? And getting no reply other than "women are hysterical"? That's effort?

and instead just see this as a sanctioned space to unload all your anger directly at them

And yet making patriarchal claims that are supposed to be taken at face value is never any sort of "anger" or "frustration". I know it isn't, because these misogynistic statements are comforting to trans activists and misogynists, for the reasons I had (surprise, surprise) already outlined. Maybe actually read women's concerns instead of reaching for the good old "hysterical" defense the second men and misogynists are inconvenienced.

If someone can't handle the fact that this is a radfem space where misogynistic ideologies get ripped apart (yes, even if they're packaged in a "nice" language) and takes feminist rejection of patriarchal values as a personal attack, then they absolutely shouldn't be posting. Disallowing radfem responses because they make misogynists feel bad is only going to get you a millionth misogynistic libfem space where people just spam "transwomen are women" and "women have pink brains" with 0 self-awareness, or a millionth conservative male cesspit where the height of their concerns is how confused their dicks get from GNC people and the only conversation is throwing "transphobe" and "tr**ny" back and forth.