GC: What's a good age-appropriate way to explain to an 8 year old boy why it would be creepy, wrong, and disrespectful towards women for him to get earrings for Christmas like his sisters received, without making him feel like he's creepy and wrong himself?

submitted by citydweller1 from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Maybe I’m missing something, but what would be creepy, wrong, or disrespectful towards women about a boy receiving earrings for Christmas? I don’t think that GC would have a problem with that.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. Nothing wrong, creepy or disrespectful to women about about boys/men getting earrings for Christmas or any other occasion - or about them wearing earrings, either.

Lots of men in various cultures including Western cultures have worn earrings in the course of history. During the era when Europeans travelled the seas in great sailing ships, men who worked as seamen and as pirates, for example.

In more recent eras, plenty of men have worn earrings too. To wit:

Brian Eno, early 70s: https://twitter.com/dark_shark/status/960034160973774853/photo/1

David Bowie, early 70s: https://twitter.com/dark_shark/status/977075128201654272/photo/1

[–]citydweller1[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't know what's creepy and wrong about it, but when I was 8 the adults in my life did, and they were never willing to explain why. It's always bothered me, so I wanted to ask people who are against male gender nonconformity why they thought it was wrong.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Why do you say we are at all against male gender nonconformity?

[–]citydweller1[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Usually when I see GC content randomly floating on social media, instead of looking for it in real literature and on debate platforms like this, it's people criticizing and mocking gender nonconforming males under the assumption that their appearance implies they are trans.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Do you think that random screenshots from people who may or may not have gender critical views is really the best way to understand what gender criticism actually is?

A man who wears a dress is fine. A man who wears a dress and claims that doing so is womanhood is extremely sexist. I’d be doing a disservice if I treated people like Alok Venon or J Yaniv as authorities on gender identity, and I feel you are doing a disservice by ignoring gender critical content for anecdotes from people who might just be being a bully.

[–]citydweller1[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you think that random screenshots from people who may or may not have gender critical views is really the best way to understand what gender criticism actually is?

Certainly not. I wouldn't want to suggest that opposition to male GNC expression is an element of mainstream gender critical feminist thinking, that'd simply be untrue. On the other hand, I figured if anyone knew how opposition to male GNC expression could fit in a feminist framework rather than as an iteration of misogynistic stereotypes etc... then there's a good chance it'd be someone in this crowd.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, gender critical feminism is absolutely not against gender nonconforming boys and men. Gender nonconformity is natural, normal, human experience.

Assigning a sex to items like earrings or hammers or colours is nonsensical. It can’t be described to you in a sensible way. There’s no sense or logic behind it, just sex stereotypes all the way down.

A man who wears a dress is doing nothing to women, we don’t care at all. There’s nothing about it that says anything other than this man wears his clothes. When a man puts on the dress and declares he is a woman because he is doing something his culture has associated as “woman’s thing” he is defining women as anyone who participates in his warped idea of what womanhood is.

There is no offence or disgust when a man simply does his thing. Nobody here is bothered if a dude enjoys crochet or frocks.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so I wanted to ask people who are against male gender nonconformity why they thought it was wrong.

Then you came to the wrong place to ask. Though, honestly, I think you would have to ask your parents. We all here could speculate about their behaviour, but they are the only ones who know the answer.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It’s creepy and wrong to tell a little boy earrings are off limits just because he’s a boy.

Earrings aren’t going to hurt him or anyone else. Grow up.

[–]citydweller1[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't actually believe earrings hurt anyone. I came here to get ideas that might form an understanding of the logic behind why my parents forbade earrings. Would you say they were creepy and wrong?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In saying that it’s creepy and wrong for a boy to receive or wear earrings, they are reinforcing the idea that jewelry is for girls because girls should be adorned and decorated and pretty.

They are very clearly adhering to shitty old gender stereotypes that make no sense whatsoever.

What seems more sensible to you?

“Boys can’t wear earrings because of their Y chromosome, you are creepy and disrespecting your sisters by wanting to be the same as them, and ear ornaments are strictly for females”

Or

“Jewelry is an object without inherent meaning or any sort of biological sex. Anyone can wear it because it is merely adornment and humans like adorning themselves. Here are some earrings son”

[–]citydweller1[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To be clear, we're wholeheartedly agreed on what you're saying as well as the second of the two options there.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No doubt, seems like you’re just phrasing the question as it was phrased to you.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

???

I see no reason to tell a 8-year-olds boy that he is creepy for wanting earrings. However, that boy should be told that, unlike his sisters, he hadn't get his ears perfored when he was a baby; and he needs to do that before wearing any earrings.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In the US, where I come from, there have always been clip-on earrings, though. My mother (born early 1920s) and grandmothers (born late 1800s) all wore clip-on earrings their whole lives because they never got their ears pierced.

Although I personally have had pierced ears since age 16, for most of my life when I still wore jewelry I'd wear clip-on earrings sometimes. In the case of the large, heavy dangling earrings I wore a lot in the 80s and 90s, I preferred clip-ons coz otherwise the earrings would pull down the earlobes and pierced holes so they got stretched out and elongated.

Clip-on earrings are what my kids would wear when playing "dress up" when they were little.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My mistake. I admit, I know barely anything about jewelry and I've never heard about that kind of earrings. Here, in Argentina, baby girls usually get their ears pierced at the hospital and, therefore, girls usually wear standard earrings.

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't ever tell a boy that. Nothing wrong with a male person wearing earrings or other jewelry if he likes them.