Both: What do you think about the NHS ending the gender-affirmation care model for youth in England?

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[–][deleted]  (13 children)

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    [–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    Do you really think I hate trans people? I’m literally a transsexual and was a feminine boy who had dysphoria. My beliefs about are very much informed by compassion and empathy toward children experiencing those things.

    [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Let me answer your question with a question and ask: Do you believe that any group, especially a marginalized one, can be self-hating?

    And I'm glad your beliefs are informed by 'compassion', I just wish they were informed by science instead. Plenty of christians want to ban homosexuality out of 'compassion', whether or not it's informed well, well-meaning, or downright insidious, that's

    Not

    An

    Argument

    oops and apologies that the timing is awful i'd love to have more of this conversation with you right now but I have to leave for a 10 hour shift so, uh, sorry, I'll get back to you when i get back to you.

    [–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I do believe the science and that’s why I hold the position I do. The studies being pushed to support your position are seeking those outcomes and, as a result, usually use very flawed methods. The first one you linked doesn’t even have a control group…

    I wish you wouldn’t continue use the right wing or christians in your comments to try to tarnish us. I am not right wing, christian, or homophobic and I don’t agree with those people. I’m also not a reactionary so I won’t support or oppose things based on whether people I don’t like support or oppose them.

    [–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Hear, hear, PATM. You and I have had our differences, but I am with you 1000% on this. Anyone who has read our posts since Saidit was launched will know that neither one of us is coming to the issue of the safeguarding and protection of kids with gender dysphoria from an anti-science, right-wing, christian or homophobic perspective.

    I happen to have a bunch of houseguests at my place this weekend for the memorial service of a longterm friend who died several weeks ago. Eight out of my 10 houseguests are homosexual. The other two are bisexual. Our deceased friend and his partner are/were gay men. We all first met in the 1970s and 80s. Many of us met and became close through the AIDS activist orgs Gay Men's Health Crisis and ACT UP.

    [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    The studies being pushed to support your position are seeking those outcomes and, as a result, usually use very flawed methods. The first one you linked doesn’t even have a control group…

    Okay, so I'm going to try and be as nice as possible when I say, peaking, that this kind of thing right here? This makes everything else you say completely irrelevant. It's the kind of confident incorrectness that highschool kids boast when they think they're smarter than everyone else because they're insanely confident and insanely bad at self-reflection. Your smoking gun, your proof that these studies "use very flawed methods", is that a COHORT study doesn't have a control group. I mean, yes, pardon my French but no shit Sherlock. That's how cohort studies work. You skimmed a study in an attempt to prove that you were right, and didn't even bother to ask yourself "is this really as strong an argument as I think it is?" And then you posted it anyways.

    Like explain how and why anything else you say should be taken seriously when you so clearly don't care about objectivity?

    [–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I guess it was my mistake in assuming you were actually providing studies that would support your point. A cohort study without a control group that follows up for one year doesn’t tell us anything.

    [–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Actually, they ["trans kids'"] often just kill themselves!

    If this is the case, how come there are never any news stories, funerals, memorial services, obituaries, police reports, coroner's reports or social media post about these tragic deaths the children you call trans and claim are committing suicide in droves?

    In the US and most other countries with functioning governments, all unexplained deaths of anyone of any age - but particularly of children - that occur and could possibly be a suicide or homicide have to be thoroughly investigated by police and a coroner/medical examiner before a death certificate is issued and the corpse/body is released to the family for burial or cremation. All deaths that occur outside of hospitals, nursing homes and hospices are automatically considered suspicious and get thorough investigation by police and medical examiners. (I can attest to this personally because several of my family members have died at home.)

    But even many deaths that occur within health care facilities get the same sort of scrutiny.

    So if all these kids are killing themselves, how come their deaths are always ignored by all the authorities in charge of investigating suspicious and untimely deaths?

    [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Admittedly, being tongue in cheek has bit me in the ass, and I should have said ATTEMPTED to kill themselves. Because they do. Teens in general commit suicide at rates high enough that it's the number two cause of death among them. So either A: kids transitioning actually DECREASES the suicide rate from the statistical average of their base group, which isn't the win you think it is, or B (and hint, it's B): you don't understand statistics and their correlation to anecdotal evidence. I'm sorry you don't see news articles every day that trans kids are killing themselves? That doesn't change reality. You realize that they're functionally a statistically insignificant group, right? There just aren't enough of them to confidently say that X of them (roughly 100, if you extrapolate from the US suicide statistics and account for higher rates of suicidal ideation) will kill themselves any given year, because the rate of variance is too high to pin down to such a small sample size. And that's not per 100000, that's per ALL of them. To put it in perspective, 15 teens (age 15-19) per 100000 will kill themselves in any given year. There are about 20 million kids in that age group. Which means that on average, 3000 teens kill themselves every year.

    And you can't link me stories for all of them. Or even a third of them. Because, shocker, generally the families of deceased DON'T want their children's death to be publicized for the world to see.

    And on top of all of this, we're not even accounting for the fact that rates of suicidal ideation (and, therefore, actual suicides) are driven up by unsupportive parents who have zero desire for their children to be considered trans by ANYONE, because they, like you, believe trans kids don't exist. Seriously, this alone should be the smoking gun for you, YOU FUCKING SAID IT YOURSELF, but your head is so in the sand that you can't possibly imagine that any belief you hold might cause actual, tangible harm.

    [–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    There's no such thing as "trans kids." There are kids with a variety of mental health and social adjustment problems who have been and are being labelled "trans" by the adults in their lives.

    [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Just, completely, factually incorrect. I transitioned behind my parent's back, I did so growing up in an extremely conservative part of the country at a time where even in the media trans people just weren't a thing (so I had no trans icons to follow in the footsteps of). I was, quite literally, a kid who was trans. Trans kid. You live in your own little bubble but the real world EXISTS around you, please, I am begging you, stop.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]beris😎[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      They are banned, the rules still apply to the rest of you. No personal attacks.