QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology

submitted by Chronicity from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Chronicity[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Nope, I’m not using trans as a modifier of woman; that’s what you and others are doing when you assert TW are a subset of women.

The issue comes down to this question: what definition of transwoman allows someone to be a one without contradicting the idea that anyone can be a woman regardless of their physique or appearance?

Definition #1: Anyone who identifies as a transwoman is a transwoman. Problem: Can a human female be one? If yes, then trans is meaningless and there’s no reason to assign it any sociopolitical significance. If no, then this definition is wrong.

Definition #2: An adult human male who identifies as an adult human female. Problem: Can a human female be one? If yes, then this definition is wrong. If no, then this violates the tenet that anyone can be a woman regardless of physique and appearance.

You are saying “trans” is an adjective for woman, but it’s not. Compare how it works with the adjective “tall”.

“Tall woman” communicates “adult human female of above average height”. Take away the last four words and what do you have left? A woman.

“Transwoman” communicates “adult human male who identifies as a human female”. Take away the last six words and what do you have left? A man. All “trans” is doing is flipping the meaning to the opposite word.

[–]rubberdubberd00 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Firstly, I would never use the word "transwoman". When I talk about a "trans woman" I am using the word "trans" which is a shortened version of the adjective, "transgender". To smash the two words together like that invites exactly the kind of misunderstanding that you seem to have here, but I'll see if I can clarify.

Because of this, the question:

The issue comes down to this question: what definition of transwoman allows someone to be a one without contradicting the idea that anyone can be a woman regardless of their physique or appearance?

Is a bit of a non starter. I would not use the word "transwoman" and I do not believe that anyone can be a "trans woman" regardless of their physique or appearance, except in the most technical sense.

To be a "trans woman" a person must (a) be trans, and (b) be a woman.

A person is trans if they identify with a different gender than the one that was assigned to them at birth. As for being a woman, I imagine that this is actually where we differ.

You are saying “trans” is an adjective for woman, but it’s not. Compare how it works with the adjective “tall”.

“Tall woman” communicates “adult human female of above average height”. Take away the last four words and what do you have left? A woman.

“Transwoman” communicates “adult human male who identifies as a human female”. Take away the last six words and what do you have left? A man. All “trans” is doing is flipping the meaning to the opposite word.

This seems to be a fundamental part of your misunderstanding. When I talk about a "tall woman" I am not talking about an "adult human female of above average height", I am talking about a person who identifies as a woman who is above average height.

Similarly, when I talk about a "trans woman" I am talking about a person who identifies as a woman and whose gender identity is different from the one that they were assigned at birth. The word "trans" doesn't change the meaning of the word "woman" at all.

The way that you are using the word "woman" (aka adult human female) a "trans woman" would be an adult human female whose gender identity is different from the one that they were assigned at birth.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

When I talk about a "trans woman" I am using the word "trans" which is a shortened version of the adjective, "transgender". To smash the two words together like that invites exactly the kind of misunderstanding that you seem to have here, but I'll see if I can clarify.

When I talk about a "tall woman" I am not talking about an "adult human female of above average height", I am talking about a person who identifies as a woman who is above average height.

Similarly, when I talk about a "trans woman" I am talking about a person who identifies as a woman and whose gender identity is different from the one that they were assigned at birth. The word "trans" doesn't change the meaning of the word "woman" at all.

The way that you are using the word "woman" (aka adult human female) a "trans woman" would be an adult human female whose gender identity is different from the one that they were assigned at birth.

For two days now, those intentionally confusing strings of gibberish you wrote have been nagging at me. I knew I had heard something very much like them before, but I couldn't remember where. Today, it finally came to me. From Through The Looking-Glass by Lewis Carroll, 1871:

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously...

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper some of them- particularly verbs: they're the proudest- adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs- however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!"

[–]rubberdubberd00 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I find it upsetting that you think I'm being intentionally confusing. I've put a lot of thought into my comments. I think part of it is just that discussions about language are inherently subject to communicate breakdowns, but I really have been doing my best.