QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology

submitted by Chronicity from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don’t have any power so no one really has to care what I think. For transsexual, a lot of people would use terms like pre-op, post-op, or non-op describe whether someone wanted or had surgery. I feel like non-op are probably different than me, but I don’t really control any language. Transphobia in 2022 just seems like a nonsense idea. I don’t think most current trans identified people now have any idea how normalized all this is compared to years ago. People without any power even talking about having less people transition are being accused actual of genocide. 😂

I feel like if it is just some internal feeling though like no one has to respect it. I know my dysphoria and sense of self is real, but other people might not believe that (and they shouldn’t have to) or just think I was a confused gay man. At least if it is treated as a mental illness with diagnostic criteria, questioning and observation from professionals, and gatekeeping, that makes it something more than just a feeling. Plus, it keeps anyone but people who genuinely can’t function otherwise from pursuing this because hopefully they wouldn’t go through it or would be recognized as being something else. It seems weird that we treat this one set of medical treatments, being done to otherwise healthy bodies, like something people can just choose to do rather than a treatment you receive because it is necessary like most other medical treatment.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I know my dysphoria and sense of self is real too but anti-trans ppl are coming for all of us, transsexual, transgender etc, and we need to stick together.

Defining it based on a medical condition simply allows doctors to control how and when and why we can access transition care. I don't know about you, but I don't trust a doctor to understand who I am. That's why for me it's based on choice, it's based on bodily autonomy--i should not need a reason to be who I am or to transition, I should not have to explain it to someone who's never been dysphoric.

Transphobia in 2022 just seems like a nonsense idea

I'm sorry but you're fucking blind if you think this, there are literally bills in multiple states trying to ban healthcare for those under 18, 19, 21. Adults will be next. Right-wing and GC figures alike calling us a problem to a sane world, trying to make us fit into their worldview that doesn't include transness.

Heck, there r still plenty of garden-variety transphobes too, ppl who call us slurs or act like we're disgusting. My mother is that way.

I used to be like you, I used to think that if only I were nice enough, if only I tried to compromise, that there would be a place for me to be, well, me, in this world. I'm done. I know where I stand and it's with trans people, the right to transition. We don't need anyone's permission.

You can either keep licking their boots and try and escape the rising tide. or you can support others like us and everyone who's trans

I don't care if you ban me, a ban from here is nothing compared to being banned from being trans, which is what will happen if I don't stand up for myself

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What are 'trans' people though? It's not very descriptive, other than people 'whose identity/expression/appearance/presentation does not match their sex (at birth)/assigned sex (at birth)', which doesn't reflect the history or reasoning for why a person transitions--and it's the reasoning for transitioning that makes it impossible to group 'trans people' as people with anything in common beyond a vague concept and superficial appearances.

Transitioning because one struggles to live as a member of their sex because of how they look, act, appear, behave, etc. (in other words, because they struggle with being perceived as members of their (birth/natal/assigned) sex) is a completely different experience to transitioning because one feels uncomfortable in their sex-associated social role, which is a completely different experience to transitioning because one wishes they were the opposite sex for some other reason. Thinking of oneself as the other sex isn't necessarily the same as thinking of oneself as trans, but both could happen simultaneously or not at all.

I wonder if 'trans' should just be considered synonymous with gender nonconformity, because that particular aspect of 'being trans' is what makes people 'transphobic'--it's aversion to gender nonconformity. It gets strange the more one resembles the opposite sex because that means one is more gender-conforming for the opposite sex, so transphobia manifests and is experienced differently, if at all. If one doesn't 'pass', then transphobia via Gender Critical-ism is because of reinforcing and (being seen as) dehumanizing members of the opposite sex, trivializing what it means to be a member of that sex, whereas the transphobia a person who 'passes' would more likely experience would be due to a person's or group of peoples' discomfort with someone not behaving or appearing as one would expect a member of their sex to behave and appear.

Saying trans people need to stick together because we are all the same because we are all trans seems analogous to GC, ideological extremists or anyone else grouping all trans people together as being the same. Both GCs and TRAs seem to try to do that, obfuscating the reasoning for why some of us are the way we are and how we came to live the lives we do: they lump the minority in with the majority and call the majority the minority. This is why people 'peak', because they come to understand that 'trans' does not refer to transsexuals or the classic stereotype of a very feminine gay man, but rather people who claim to identify as the opposite sex in order to escape their problems associated with being that person as opposed to anything to do with sex/gender/roles/etc.

If a male experiences the world being perceived by most everyone as a woman, why would they feel they have more in common with trans people rather than women? I feel like that experience is ignored, downplayed, and/or met with hostility by the majority of trans people (who are not transsexuals) because they cannot comprehend that experience themselves, and there is resentment towards transsexuals like this. Most trans peoples' experiences are not those of transsexuals', so they take the interpretation of their own experience and apply it to transsexuals, then claim that they have the same experience because they don't pass yet they feel they are or should be another sex or gender, so the feeling of dissatisfaction one has with their sex/gender/role is interpreted as being the same, when it really isn't.

We can all support freedom of choice on matters of personal expression or if a person wants to modify or alter their body or appearance, and we can all condemn bigoty and prejudice against trans people, but I have difficulty finding solidarity simply in 'being trans', because that alone is not a universal experience.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

One more thing. Can you please explain what you mean here:

If one doesn't 'pass', then transphobia via Gender Critical-ism is because of reinforcing and (being seen as) dehumanizing members of the opposite sex, trivializing what it means to be a member of that sex

Because it comes off as though you are saying females are the ones guilty of dehumanizing males, not the other way around, and that we are the ones who are trivializing what it means to be a member of the opposite/male sex. Which sure sounds like DARVO straight out of the MRA playbook. Talk about pot calling the kettle black!

the transphobia a person who 'passes' would more likely experience would be due to a person's or group of peoples' discomfort with someone not behaving or appearing as one would expect a member of their sex to behave and appear.

People of both sexes have been defying sex stereotypes for generations - all without experiencing any "transphobia." *

Chances are, what you perceive as other people's discomfort and choose to call "transphobia" is just projections of your own feelings of discomfort stemming from your own judgments. You might believe that most people experience "discomfort with someone not behaving or appearing as one would expect a member of the their sex to behave and appear" because you yourself have rigid expectations of how others should behave and appear and you are preoccupied with how others appear and behave - and you assume everyone else shares your rigid expectations and preoccupations and is always looking at you and judging you too. But this is not true. The people who have rigid expectations and are hung up on looks and masculinity and femininity and are always going around judging themselves and others based on superficial aspects of dress, appearance and affect are the genderists, not the general public.

In a country like the USA or UK, most people don't pay much attention to how the other people we see out and about dress and behave. And so long as people are not impinging on on the rights of others, breaking laws, making trouble, encroaching where they don't belong, or creating safeguarding concerns, no one much cares about the way others dress and behave.

GC women aren't discomforted by males not adhering to sex stereotypes. What we are discomfited by is males reducing us to cardboard stereotypes, telling us they/you ARE us, and mimicking us in dehumanizing ways for entertainment as in drag, for claimed reasons of "identity" that they demand we play along with and show respect for - or else - as in trans, and for their own sexual fetishes and sick male fantasies. What we are very distressed by are the claims that genderists make, namely that not adhering to the sex stereotypes of one's own sex means a person effectively turns into the opposite sex - and, worse, that males who don't conform to the sex stereotypes for their sex now have a right to horn in on female sports and on the spaces and services meant for female people, such as women's and girls' locker rooms, loos, changing rooms, showers, shelters, dorm rooms, rape crisis centers, prisons, support groups.

*A case in point: this longtime "gender bender" is now constantly called a transphobe by genderists because he says humans can dress and express ourselves however we want, but none of us can change sex: https://youtu.be/2GbgPd3hPSc

In 2022, Marilyn - who now goes by the name Mister Marilyn - is still dressing as behaving as he wants, and no one cares or gives him grief, not even his GC feminist fans like me. Because Mr Marilyn doesn't pretend that his fondness for skirts, makeup and long hair makes him a woman. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WgO7jVltslQ

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/K-nE5qF4YjU

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it comes off as though you are saying females are the ones guilty of dehumanizing males, not the other way around, and that we are the ones who are trivializing what it means to be a member of the opposite/male sex. Which sure sounds like DARVO straight out of the MRA playbook. Talk about pot calling the kettle black!

Right? It definitely would if that’s what I were saying, but I’m not sure why you are interpreting my words as implying females being guilty of anything. Transphobia means different things to different people, some not believing it exists at all, while others feel it’s rampant across life; some people think it’s not respecting pronoun requests, others feel it’s about being refused employment on the basis of ‘being trans’. What QT might call transphobia, GC might not, so in this context, from the perspective of QT, transphobia would be whatever ways GC does not acquiesce to QT belief systems–GC is in opposition of reinforcement of stereotypes ascribed to sex, sexism, and misogyny, at least partly because it dehumanizes people of both sexes, reducing them to cardboard cutouts, as you say–these things that are seen as QT exalting and reinforcing. Does that make sense?

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, it doesn't make sense. Sorry if I misinterpreted your words. Can you explain what this sentence means:

If one doesn't 'pass', then transphobia via Gender Critical-ism is because of reinforcing and (being seen as) dehumanizing members of the opposite sex, trivializing what it means to be a member of that sex

I honestly don't get what "transphobia via Gender Critical-ism" is. Can you give some examples please.

And please explain how "transphobia via Gender Critical-ism" results in

reinforcing and (being seen as) dehumanizing members of the opposite sex, trivializing what it means to be a member of that sex

BTW, I don't deny that some GC people can be mean and make cutting remarks about the clothes, grooming, hairstyles, etc of some trans people. But you've got to admit that a lot of trans people seem to be "taking the piss" as they say in Britain. Such as all the men with beards claiming to be trans women nowadays. And all the males clearly using their special status as members of the new sacred caste to trample all over women and our basic civil rights. To wit: Danielle Muscato, Jessica Yaniv, Lia Thomas, Ricci Tres, Eddie Izzard... Not to mention all the convicted rapists of women, child molesters and murderers of women and children.

You mention people who are

being refused employment on the basis of ‘being trans’.

Please give some RL examples of this actually happening. I know people with trans identities complain a lot that no one will hire them. Maybe so. But is it because they are trans - or because of some other reason? Or reasons? For example, trans lobby orgs report that more than 60% of "black trans women" in the US today have criminal convictions that caused them to be sentenced to time behind bars (these convictions are not for doing "sex work"). The CDC reports that "black trans women" in the US have a very high rate of HIV infections (in the range of 50%) and most who get their HIV diagnosed are noncompliant with medical care to keep their HIV in check. So if it's hard for many of them to get hired, it might be because they have limited work histories and blemished records.

Also, unfortunately trans people have already gotten a reputation for making unreasonable demands in the workplace, and for filing a lot of HR grievances and lawsuits. When women entered the workforce in large numbers in the 1960s and 70s, women took the opposite tack. We learned to put up with a lot of crap without filing grievances or lawsuits in part because we didn't want to give men any reason to complain that we're difficult to work with.

All that said, it seems "being trans" today is considered an asset in the eyes of many employers that leads to more and better job opportunities. Caitlyn Jenner got hired by FOX News coz Jenner is trans. Rachel Levine got a cabinet post for being trans. Jennifer Finney Boylan has made a whole stellar career out of being trans. Lots of trans people seem today seem to be handed employment opportunities on a silver platter. Hiring someone trans garners employers points in terms of the DEI stats and PR.

Moreover, a number of major corporations now are providing benefits, accommodations and perks for trans people on an order and scale not matched by the benefits, accommodations and perks that any other marginalized group gets. For example, many companies now give trans employees extensive leave for, and cash payments to cover, a host of "gender affirming" cosmetic surgeries - on top of the sick leave and regular benefits that all employees get.

By contrast, women working for these same companies don't get special time off or extra funds to help us deal with issues like menstrual cramps, PMDD, flooding from uterine bleeding and clotting, miscarriage or termination, or for tummy tucks and breast lifts after pregnancies. Some of the same companies that are bending over backwards to fund and support "gender affirming" cosmetic procedures don't even give female employees much or anything in the way of decent paid maternity leave after giving birth. Similarly, though women have been begging for accommodations in the workplace when going through menopause, most companies have told female employees to suck it up. Most workplaces also still make no accommodations to make it easier, safer and more hygienic for breastfeeding women to express and store milk during their shifts.

So the issue is: are trans people really suffering huge amounts of workplace discrimination like they constantly say? Or is this just another area where the extent of "oppression coz trans" has been greatly exagerrated - indeed, largely invented? When trans people claim they are discriminated against like no other group is or has ever been discriminated against, I always wonder: who have they spoken to? Who are they comparing themselves to? Do they know any women, people from racial and linguistic minorities, older people past 50, or people with disabilities, etc who truly have suffered employment discrimination because of immutable physical characteristics?