QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology

submitted by Chronicity from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don’t have any power so no one really has to care what I think. For transsexual, a lot of people would use terms like pre-op, post-op, or non-op describe whether someone wanted or had surgery. I feel like non-op are probably different than me, but I don’t really control any language. Transphobia in 2022 just seems like a nonsense idea. I don’t think most current trans identified people now have any idea how normalized all this is compared to years ago. People without any power even talking about having less people transition are being accused actual of genocide. 😂

I feel like if it is just some internal feeling though like no one has to respect it. I know my dysphoria and sense of self is real, but other people might not believe that (and they shouldn’t have to) or just think I was a confused gay man. At least if it is treated as a mental illness with diagnostic criteria, questioning and observation from professionals, and gatekeeping, that makes it something more than just a feeling. Plus, it keeps anyone but people who genuinely can’t function otherwise from pursuing this because hopefully they wouldn’t go through it or would be recognized as being something else. It seems weird that we treat this one set of medical treatments, being done to otherwise healthy bodies, like something people can just choose to do rather than a treatment you receive because it is necessary like most other medical treatment.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I know my dysphoria and sense of self is real too but anti-trans ppl are coming for all of us, transsexual, transgender etc, and we need to stick together.

Defining it based on a medical condition simply allows doctors to control how and when and why we can access transition care. I don't know about you, but I don't trust a doctor to understand who I am. That's why for me it's based on choice, it's based on bodily autonomy--i should not need a reason to be who I am or to transition, I should not have to explain it to someone who's never been dysphoric.

Transphobia in 2022 just seems like a nonsense idea

I'm sorry but you're fucking blind if you think this, there are literally bills in multiple states trying to ban healthcare for those under 18, 19, 21. Adults will be next. Right-wing and GC figures alike calling us a problem to a sane world, trying to make us fit into their worldview that doesn't include transness.

Heck, there r still plenty of garden-variety transphobes too, ppl who call us slurs or act like we're disgusting. My mother is that way.

I used to be like you, I used to think that if only I were nice enough, if only I tried to compromise, that there would be a place for me to be, well, me, in this world. I'm done. I know where I stand and it's with trans people, the right to transition. We don't need anyone's permission.

You can either keep licking their boots and try and escape the rising tide. or you can support others like us and everyone who's trans

I don't care if you ban me, a ban from here is nothing compared to being banned from being trans, which is what will happen if I don't stand up for myself

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What are 'trans' people though? It's not very descriptive, other than people 'whose identity/expression/appearance/presentation does not match their sex (at birth)/assigned sex (at birth)', which doesn't reflect the history or reasoning for why a person transitions--and it's the reasoning for transitioning that makes it impossible to group 'trans people' as people with anything in common beyond a vague concept and superficial appearances.

Transitioning because one struggles to live as a member of their sex because of how they look, act, appear, behave, etc. (in other words, because they struggle with being perceived as members of their (birth/natal/assigned) sex) is a completely different experience to transitioning because one feels uncomfortable in their sex-associated social role, which is a completely different experience to transitioning because one wishes they were the opposite sex for some other reason. Thinking of oneself as the other sex isn't necessarily the same as thinking of oneself as trans, but both could happen simultaneously or not at all.

I wonder if 'trans' should just be considered synonymous with gender nonconformity, because that particular aspect of 'being trans' is what makes people 'transphobic'--it's aversion to gender nonconformity. It gets strange the more one resembles the opposite sex because that means one is more gender-conforming for the opposite sex, so transphobia manifests and is experienced differently, if at all. If one doesn't 'pass', then transphobia via Gender Critical-ism is because of reinforcing and (being seen as) dehumanizing members of the opposite sex, trivializing what it means to be a member of that sex, whereas the transphobia a person who 'passes' would more likely experience would be due to a person's or group of peoples' discomfort with someone not behaving or appearing as one would expect a member of their sex to behave and appear.

Saying trans people need to stick together because we are all the same because we are all trans seems analogous to GC, ideological extremists or anyone else grouping all trans people together as being the same. Both GCs and TRAs seem to try to do that, obfuscating the reasoning for why some of us are the way we are and how we came to live the lives we do: they lump the minority in with the majority and call the majority the minority. This is why people 'peak', because they come to understand that 'trans' does not refer to transsexuals or the classic stereotype of a very feminine gay man, but rather people who claim to identify as the opposite sex in order to escape their problems associated with being that person as opposed to anything to do with sex/gender/roles/etc.

If a male experiences the world being perceived by most everyone as a woman, why would they feel they have more in common with trans people rather than women? I feel like that experience is ignored, downplayed, and/or met with hostility by the majority of trans people (who are not transsexuals) because they cannot comprehend that experience themselves, and there is resentment towards transsexuals like this. Most trans peoples' experiences are not those of transsexuals', so they take the interpretation of their own experience and apply it to transsexuals, then claim that they have the same experience because they don't pass yet they feel they are or should be another sex or gender, so the feeling of dissatisfaction one has with their sex/gender/role is interpreted as being the same, when it really isn't.

We can all support freedom of choice on matters of personal expression or if a person wants to modify or alter their body or appearance, and we can all condemn bigoty and prejudice against trans people, but I have difficulty finding solidarity simply in 'being trans', because that alone is not a universal experience.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Please, provide evidence of the so GC extremism you're talking about. And I hope you have better examples than women being rude on the internet when ranting about all this stuff being force on us, or women refusing to play along with "prefered pronouns" or "inclusive language" in general, or women calling out the lack of evidence of what pass as "trans healthcare". And I hope your examples dont' include blaming women for male on male violence. Otherwise, it'd be a dishonest framing if you claim that both sides have extremist when we can provide plenty of evidence of TRAs threathening, doxing, getting fired or physically assaulting dissenting women, and when we can provide plenty of evidence of TRAs advocating for the chemical castration of children and teens, getting male rapist in women's prisons and the legal erasure of sex, and not to mention all the dehumanizing language they want to impose to talk about actual women and actual women's bodies, or how they often work behinds everyone's backs.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm not sure if you're referring to this:

analogous to GC, ideological extremists or anyone else grouping all trans people together as being the same.

But if you are, I should have used an oxford comma to distinguish between Gender Critical, and ideological extremism--sorry about that!

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, I was refering to that part. And I still don't understand what you meant by that. Why do you think GC and ideological extremists are analogous?

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd like to know why Fleurista is making that claim too. And also on what basis Fleurista believes it's fair and accurate to say that GC are guilty of

grouping all trans people together as being the same.

My perception is that GC are the one group that does the total opposite. GC constantly point out that "all trans people" are NOT the same and therefore should not be lumped together.

GC point out that "trans people" are either male or female, and there is a world of difference between trans people who are male and trans people who are female. GC also point out that the "gender affirming" medical treatments given to males and females who ID as trans have very different impacts on the mental health and mental wellbeing two groups, in large part because of the innumerable physical differences between the two sexes.

GC also point out that that males and females who identity as trans need to be further distinguished from one another not just by their sex, but by their age and the year/era they were born in; by the age and stage of development they were in when they first began to experience distress about sex and gender and an inclination to "identify as" the opposite; by their sexual orientation (when applicable); and by the range of experiences they went through growing up, with special attention to ACEs like child sex abuse, parental divorce, family conflict, bereavement, etc.

GC is the group that points out that girls whose distress over sex and gender and desire to be a boy/man suddenly crops up during puberty of adolescence are totally different to boys who felt a desire to be girls starting in early childhood long before puberty of adolescence - and that these two very distinct groups are vastly different in turn to the legions of males who develop "gender dysphoria" and decide to declare that they are girls/women in adolescence or adulthood principally because doing so brings them enormous male sexual pleasure.

GC are the ones who not only distinguish between two groups of adult and adolescent males who identity as trans like Blanchard did - the homosexual ones and the heterosexual ones with autogynephilia - we say that even amongst these two groups of males there are often marked differences in what is driving them to identity as the opposite sex, which have a lot to do with culture, ethnicity, and where they were born and grew up. GC point out that even within these two groups of adolescent and adult males, there are differences in the benefits, pleasures and seeming solutions to their overall life problems that identifying as girls/women brings them - and differences in the drawbacks and difficulties they experience from devoting their energies and time in, and investing so much of themselves in, the massive undertaking of trying to "live as" and "pass as" women/girls too.

GC is the group that further point out that just as "trans people" shouldn't be lumped together as if they were all one and the same, youngsters shouldn't be lumped together by use of such difference-erasing neologisms as "trans children" and "trans youth." GC are the group that keep pointing out that even when the "gender affirming treatment" prescribed, championed and sold as a panacea and magic cure for all "trans children" is the exact same thing - GnRH analogs aka "puberty blockers" - and it's administered at the same exact age, the treatment has radically different effects on male youngsters versus female youngsters. GC point out that when female children are put on "puberty blockers" for sex and gender distress, the blockers do not lead to improved body image, greater self-acceptance and less anxiety and depression. On the contrary, "puberty blockers" in gender and sex distressed females leads to a worsening of mental health in these specific regards - and to an increase in desire to/thoughts of self-harm, including suicide. Moreover, in females the use of GnRH analogs to block puberty results in permanently stunted height and dangerously low bone density, which in many cases results bone fractures, spinal deformity and degeneration, skeletons that cannot support the girls' bodies, and constant pain.

Seems to me that if anyone is guilty of "grouping all trans people together," it's not GC - rather, it's QT, TRAs, the legions of people who work in the gender vendor industry, and a great many individuals who identify as trans and mistakenly assume that others who identify as trans must be very much like themselves. IIRC, on this very sub Fleurista and other individual posters who call themselves "trans people" have been taken to task rather often by GC posters such as yours truly for not seeming to be aware of, or not paying enough heed to, the fact that many "trans people" are female, and for appearing not to take into account that the life experiences of many "trans people" are drastically different to their own personal life experience and the personal life experience of the small number of other "trans people" they personally know or know about too.