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[–]rubberdubberd00 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

What "woman" means isn't actually relevant to this post at all. Hence my examples of how you could replace it with other words and the functionality of the word "trans" would be the same.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Don't dodge the question. What a woman is it's absolutely relevant if you're going to define "trans". What does the adjective "trans" means when describing a "woman"? What does make someone "trans"? What are the differences between "transwomen" and women?

Your argument relies on us accepting the claim that a "transwoman" is a type of woman. If you expect we accept this, then first you need to define what is a woman and how "transwomen" fit the definition.

[–]rubberdubberd00 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I'm happy to explain how I personally use the word "woman", but I don't see how it's relevant to this thread. I'll put an explanation at the end of the comment but I'd rather not change the subject.

What does the adjective "trans" means when describing a "woman"?

The same thing that it means when describing a "teacher" or a "capricorn". My understanding is that a person is trans if they identify with a different gender to the one that was assigned to them at birth based on their observed sex. The fact that someone is trans tells you nothing as to what their gender is.

Edit: missed that last bit. I do not want you to believe that a tran woman is a type of woman. A trans person is a type of person. Whether they are a woman or not is a separate, independent fact.

~~~~

Anyway. The word "woman" has multiple different meanings in common use, but the one that I use most commonly and that I believe best explains the most common usages that I hear from others refers to a social class. In particular I think it's a fair interpretation to say that a woman is a person who identifies with the social class that is culturally associated to the female sex.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

So if I start telling my clients that I will white-glove clean and disinfect their home, then go splash some water around and say my personal definition of cleaning and disinfecting is making things damp, have I lied to them or not?

Do words have definitions all speakers share, or do words have no meanings other than the ones we personally assign?

If you paid me twenty grand to paint your house white, and I painted it neon green would you tell me I did a great job and pay up?

[–]rubberdubberd00 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

If you genuinely believed this then it's not a lie, no.

Do words have definitions all speakers share? No, they don't. How could they?

If you paid me twenty grand to paint your house white, and I painted it neon green would you tell me I did a great job and pay up?

This would be a case where our different understanding of words has caused a problem in our communication (an extreme example, but this happens all the time!). As to how I would actually react in that scenario, I would not believe that you in good faith misunderstood what I meant by "white", and furthermore would expect that a professional house painter would, as part of their role, have an understanding of how people communicate their desire regarding the colour of their house. I would consider that a person who claims this misunderstanding is therefore either being dishonest or is not sufficiently good at their job, so it's not my responsibility to pay.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

So white and yellow have meanings that are shared. We can agree on this, at least.

Why do some words have shared meaning amongst speakers of English and some don’t?

What is the deciding factor in which words are defined personally and which are defined for the purpose of communication. Who is deciding this for all English speakers?

Can you explain why this is?

[–]rubberdubberd00 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

So white and yellow have meanings that are shared

I'm not sure how you got this from what I said. I would argue that no word has a shared meaning between any two people, but there can be more or less overlap between people's understanding.

Words are neither defined "personally", nor for the purpose of communication. Definitions simply do their best to describe the prevailing trends in how a word is used.

What is the alternative that you are suggesting? Where do words get their meaning if not from the people who use them?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Lmao so nobody shares a meaning of the word dog, or yellow, or knife, we just all sort of overlap in opinions? That’s the biggest steamiest pile of shit I’ve seen this week.

Words are mere suggestions of ideas lmao, I beg you to reconsider this silliness.

Imagine what would happen in a hospital if clear definitions weren’t something humans have. Saline probably suggests some amount of salt in water never mind if it’s a cup of table salt dissolved in a bucket of mop water.

150milligrams and 150 grams are similar and often mixed up by those who rarely use such measurements. Sure everyone died on the icu cause morphine prefers precision but that’s just how words are.

“No, no, I didn’t hit your dog with my car I define that as nudging him gently.”

If this isn’t a joke you’ve made, I think the divide in your cognitive dissonance must make the Mariana’s trench look like a crack in a plate.

Think about this critically for a few minutes, what would the world look like if things other than gender identity were defined this way.

How would the legal system work? Medicine? Money? Food service, mining, production floors?

[–]rubberdubberd00 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

What way do you think language works if not this way?

You asking what the world would look like if this is the case is a bit baffling to me. So far as I'm concerned this is the case, and the world is how it is.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Because I’m allowing myself to think about the scenario instead of trying to make language conform to a modern invention like gender identity.

If words have no definition and merely refer to any object, phenomena, or idea that any individual might apply a word to, how the fuck are you reading this?

Do you really think that amoxicillin is not a definitively defined chemical? That bovines are categorised by opinions had by people who have never seen a cow irl?

I doubt that very much. Claiming the world actually totally does follow your preferred model without giving any example, whilst using the language to communicate specific ideas using specific words to do so just looks beyond daft.