GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Women are saying that we don't want males in female spaces and sports no matter how the males claim to identify and no matter what alterations males have made to their bodies and appearance.

I'm saying you don't have the right to universally treat trans women as males just because of our biology or birth sex no matter what we've changed about ourselves.

But we still don't want even the males we love and trust

Males aren't deserving of trust and love

Or we didn't used to until males very recently started using gender identity claims to invad

Can you name one person who's done that, who's not trans and just faking it?

And please enough with the drama. No one is going to throw you in jail for taking exogenous hormones or wearing a bra.

Maybe not but you would if I let people assume I'm a woman in public and don't announce my transness when I go to work or use the bathroom.

You think women saying "no" is the same as us saying we hate you.

You treating me as something I never asked for and that I'm actively in the process of changing, no matter what I do, yes, is the same as saying you hate me. You have personal boundaries like everyone else! but a bathroom is not a personal boundary that you get to exclude an entire group of women from.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Or we didn't used to until males very recently started using gender identity claims to invad

Can you name one person who's done that, who's not trans and just faking it?

How can anyone tell who is legit trans, if there is such a thing, or just faking it?

But that's beside the point. If there are people who are "true trans," it still wouldn't explain or excuse why males who are "true trans" have to invade girls' and women's sport. There is no reason on earth that I can see why male TPs like Cece Telfer, June Eastwood, Lia Thomas, Rachel McKinnon, Terry Miller, Andraya Yearwood, Meghan Youngren, Laurel Hubbard, Chelsea Wolfe, Emily Bridges, Stephanie Barrett, Sasha Jane Lowerson and the hundreds more like them absolutely must participate in women's and girls' sports.

There are many male TPs who think it's wrong for males to use their gender identities to horn in on female sports. There are many female athletes with trans and NB gender identities who have continued to compete in female sports. Female TPs are not participating in male sports in anywhere near the numbers that male TPs are horning in on female sports. And the few who have entered male sports never, ever win. Most don't place or even make it off the bench. Funny that.

In sports, the only time people are ever allowed to move from one category to another is when they go up into a category in which they will have less advantage, not more. So a 14 year old who's really big and strong and fast can step up to the next age rung and compete with 15 and 16 year olds, but a 14 year old who's small and weak and slow can't step down to compete with the younger kids.

Only male TPs and their allies are demanding that male TPs, and they alone, should be able to use their gender identity claims - real or fake, it doesn't matter - to compete in a category of sport where male TPs have massive physical advantages over all other participants. Only male TPs and their allies are demanding that male TPs be given the right to punch down on, lord it over and unfairly trounce those who are naturally smaller, weaker and slower. Then when girls and women complain, male TPs and their allies turn around and call the girls and women names and say girls and women just need to "try harder."

Please explain how you justify this.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

but a bathroom is not a personal boundary that you get to exclude an entire group of women from.

If a bathroom is not a personal boundary, then you wouldn't care either if all bathrooms become unisex and you have to share them with regular males, right? After all, who are you to exclude half the population of using public bathrooms? Saying men may pose a risk to you sounds like fearmongering, you know? You cannot judge all men for the actions of a few abusive men, don't you think so?

Of course, you know that I'm talking nonsense here. Yet, when women try to explain to you why we don't want males however they identify as in places like bathrooms, you act outraged.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They're men ofc they can be judged for that

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What is the difference...?

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Males aren't deserving of trust and love

Who the eff do you think you are to tell me that the males in my life whom I know, trust and love aren't deserving of trust and love?

Also, why do you give yourself permission to say things that are openly, blatantly misandrist against all males, but you tell girls and women we are hateful and horrible for wanting to keep males out of a few select spaces and our sports for reasons of safety, privacy, dignity, wellbeing and fairness?

Why are males who want to be women allowed to be wary of other males, but women are not allowed to express the same sentiments? Why are you so adamant about asserting that personal comfort and protection from harm is your right whilst at the same time you are so insistent about denying this same right to girls and women?

You treating me as something I never asked for

Oh grow up. Some of your stock answers make you sound like you're 8. None of us asked to be born. None of us has control over our DNA or the cards we were dealt. Everyone has a cross to bear of some kind. Lots of people on planet earth suffer just as much or far worse than people with gender dysphoria. And you know what- no one gets out of our earthly existence alive, either.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I mean you think I'm one of those so I'm just speaking against "my own kind"

Idk how you can claim that trans women are all dangerous r*posts and then later say there are male people you care about?

I transitioned because I wasn't worthy of love or anything when I was a boy, I'm trying to put that behind me so that I could maybe experience that someday. The only people who have been consistently kind to me are women and trans people. I've never met a man that didn't want to use me in some way. If I'm going to bring any kindness or love into the world I can't do it as a man

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Idk how you can claim that trans women are all dangerous r*posts and then later say there are male people you care about?

Yikes, you really need to learn abut categories and logic.

No one claimed that all TW are dangerous. Or that all males are dangerous.

Women don't want TW in our "safe spaces" because TW are male. Males commit nearly all sex crimes (98%), and the vast majority of those crimes (88%) are committed against females - and one of the consequences of male sex crimes for female people is that we can end up pregnant through rape. Moreover, males are bigger and stronger and faster than females, which makes us very easy prey for the bad guys - sitting ducks.

But even males who don't pose a physical threat to females are usually sexually interested in girls and women and are very very interested in looking at us when we are naked or partially undressed, and generally prying into our private business. Some males are fetishists and pervs. Other males are just pushy. Many males sexually harass and pester girls and women... And all males who stand to pee into toilets end up getting their stinky male urine all over the toilet seats and the floors, which creates a bunch of problems for girls and women since we have to sit to do our business.

So to protect girls and women from male sex assault as well as from unwanted male sexual attention and a variety of other bothersome, unhygienic male behaviors, the rule is to segregate restrooms, locker rooms and places like shelters and prisons by sex. It's easier to keep ALL males out than to have special rules that let some males in based on how nice they are as individuals.

Men and boys raised to respect girls and women have always understood that the best and most efficient way to keep the minority of males who are predatory, dangerous and creepy out of female spaces is to keep ALL males out. They've never had a problem with that.

But now there's this huge group of males who do have a problem with it. They find it outrageous that girls and women desire and traditionally have been allowed to have places where they as males can't enter and aren't wanted. They say they must be allowed into those places, and they don't care how women and girls feel about it. Funny thing is, the males who are demanding they be be allowed to remove girls' and women's right to safe spaces away from males say they "identify as" and "feel like" girls and women themselves. Some say they actually are us like you do.

If males who claim to "identify as" women had any compassion for girls and women, and any understanding of what it's like to be female, then they/you would see how distressing and scary it is to be on the receiving end of the onslaught of male aggression, intrusiveness and abusiveness that TW are dishing out to us on the daily. But it seems to be beyond you.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean you think I'm one of those so I'm just speaking against "my own kind"

So do you think that because I am a woman, it entitles me to speak against all women? That because I am a mother, I'm allowed to slag off all women with children? That because I live in certain country, I can cast aspersions on everyone who resides in my country? You get the point, I'm sure.

The only people who have been consistently kind to me are women and trans people.

But making sweeping judgments - good or bad - about entire populations based solely on the small number of people you have interacted with and who have been kind or mean to you personally is never a good idea. I think you need to broaden your horizons and stop seeing life solely through the lens of your own personal experience. Read some biographies. Study some history. Learn about life in other cultures, and other time periods. Thinking about me, me, me all the time is a recipe for misery.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

None of us has control over our DNA or the cards we were dealt

So why stop people from trying to change their cards? Why treat them as if they're always what they were born?

Idk I want to get out alive and live forever and certainly not in this body I was born in.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

None of us has control over our DNA or the cards we were dealt

So why stop people from trying to change their cards? Why treat them as if they're always what they were born?

But I don't see you as someone who is just trying to change the cards you were dealt. I see you as someone whose aim is to steal other people's cards - and grab all the poker chips so you can hog them all for yourself too. You are insisting that you and other males like you must be allowed to dictate the rules of the game for everyone in the world, and that you and other males must always win at all costs, even though you know that your winning means untold numbers girls and women all lose.