GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

But forming your concept of womanhood on harassment, appearance and feelings, in other words, defining womanhood only by what you can try to wedge yourself

It's not only bad experiences! I have a good rapport and friendship with my women coworkers, who are super talented at what they do, and just the experience of being friends with women is very different than when I was a boy. there's less of a gap of understanding. And no I didn't approach them they were the ones who started conversation

Look im sure if I were female a definition based on biology would appeal to me because it's simple and would likely match how I think about myself. I'm not, so I find joy or meaning in the things I actually do experience.

They linked those crimes because they were relevant to the discussion.

How? How do criminals who are trans have an effect on bathrooms?

An opinion or belief is literally a feeling but ok.

Invading other peoples safe spaces is you doing something wrong. You being there is scary regardless of your behavior.

And yet many specifically say that I'm included in "their" bathroom. Like I understand and would not join a private space where it was stated or implied that trans women aren't welcome. Bathrooms don't have any such consensus, and using them is practically required for public life.

And pretending a man can be a woman takes away the entire meaning of woman.

Saying that someone can become or partially live as a woman still requires that "woman" has a meaning apart from that identity or becoming.

it’s not our job to find out where you can pee.

And it's not mine to hurt myself and agonize over this when there's never an issue and not everyone even thinks the way you do. You're not the arbiter of public bathrooms.

go home and pee

Yeah this is definitely realistic when I live 90 minutes from the office.

carry some device to pee in your car if you have to

What?? That's like super degrading wtf

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

  1. Just because you have female friends you relate to doesn’t mean you’re a woman lol. I have more male friends than female

-2. Saying that you can become or live like a woman is false because you have to be a female to do those things. You literally just said if you were female the definition would work for you. So you admit that you only can’t accept it because it doesn’t apply to you. You admit to wanting to redefine or misuse a word that has a meaning that makes sense even to you just because it doesn’t fit you. That’s ridiculous and selfish as fuck but I respect that you admitted this

-3. So you’ll listen to women who know you (how do they know you’re trans if you aren’t honest? Like do they even know you’re a te in their space? If they did, some may feel differently). If I personally knew a TW and I trusted them I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable or unsafe. Other women in that space may so it’s not ok for your friends to give a man permission. It’s not just my space or your friends space and women allover have been pretty vocal about feeling uncomfortable. It’s not okay for any woman to ignore those women because they personally like you or don’t feel uncomfortable. If there is no consensus, TW should stay out until the consensus is that all women and girls are comfortable. Precisely because those spaces are meant for us to be comfortable and feel safe

-4. I don’t care if it’s degrading. It’s degrading to an entire sex, half of the population, to have us be told that we have no say in our spaces because some men really want to use them. It’s degrading to tell women that womanhood is an identity or can be earned through artificial hormones and surgery. So if you have to figure out how to pee without degrading women and the result is that you feel degraded- oh well. You could use the mens room. You choose not to.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Saying that you can become or live like a woman is false because you have to be a female to do those things

People believe that I am female. They don't know differently.

That’s ridiculous and selfish as fuck but I respect that you admitted this

If our situations were swapped I doubt you'd hold biology as sacrosanct either. My point is like we all define ourselves in ways that make sense to us. For me the only way I can is by denying my biology.

how do they know you’re trans if you aren’t honest? Like do they even know you’re a te in their space

I have friends I've met online that later became irl friends and those people know. I keep that friend group separate from people I met irl. They're the ones who I was talking about there sorry to be unclear.

Other women in that space may

May. Like why should I stress or, according to you, literally pee in my car (which I don't have because I commute via public transport to the office on days I can't be remote), when in order for anyone to actually be upset they have to 1. See me in the first place which I try to avoid 2. Figure out that I'm trans and 3. Are uncomfortable with me being trans in the same room as them.

If there is no consensus, TW should stay out

Yet you would never say this to lesbian women. And people literally did, there was a panic about lesbian women in women's locker rooms, and it was absurd and homophobic. On what basis should the default be to assume that everyone is transphobic?

we have no say in our spaces

Ofc you have say in your spaces? Bathrooms are a public space with no clear individual or group ownership.

You could use the mens room. You choose not to.

Bc I'm not a man and I won't humiliate myself at work

[–]Juniperius 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are uncomfortable with me being trans in the same room as them.

You mean, Are uncomfortable with you being male in the same room where they are exposing their genitals with the expectation that it is safe to do so because they believe there will never be any males there.

It's not the trans that's the problem, it's the male.

And it's not being in the same room that's the problem, it's being in a room where we specifically go to be away from males so we can take care of intimate bodily functions.