GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

  1. You will not be a woman. You cannot be a woman. You are not a woman. Like I said it’s getting to be too much so I skimmed a lot of your justifications for calling yourself one because honestly it’s too much

-2. I honestly appreciate that you wouldn’t join a woman’s club and that you went to a friends place instead of a woman’s shelter. Truly. I appreciate that you did that because others wouldn’t have. I still don’t think female bathrooms are for TW

-3. I don’t care about TW wanting to be stealth. So I don’t care about it causing issues at work for you. I just don’t. Sorry.

-4. It’s insane to me to tell one person it’s okay to make everyone else feel uncomfortable. Even children. That boy should be nowhere near female spaces and a girl shouldn’t be in boy spaces. It’s hypocritical to say no one’s feelings matter more than anyone else’s and then say that boy should use female spaces because of his genderfeelz

-5. I never misgendered you. Man is not a gender. I properly sexed you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

You will not be a woman. You cannot be a woman. You are not a woman.

I am and I will be female someday : P

So I don’t care about it causing issues at work for you. I just don’t. Sorry.

Cool then I don't care about whether me maintaining being stealth upsets someone I'm never going to meet sorry

It’s insane to me to tell one person it’s okay to make everyone else feel uncomfortable.

Why are trans people responsible for everyone else's comfort? Surely you wouldn't tell a gay boy or a lesbian girl to not use the bathroom just because some of their classmates are homophobic?

People should use the bathroom they want. If they have a problem with someone else using it then that's on them.

I never misgendered you. Man is not a gender. I properly sexed you.

Awesomely pedantic it's still against the rules although I don't really expect much to ever be done about it because this place is biased against QT ppl and doesn't even have a QT mod.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Keep hope alive I guess. It’s never gonna happen and it’s honestly kind of comforting in a twisted way to know that no matter what TW take from us, they can’t ever achieve their goal.

Im sure someone will find out and will care and you won’t care that they care but go off

Being a homosexual has nothing to do with this? Gay men are still men and gay women are still women so this is irrelevant. It would be homophobic of someone to not want a member of the same sex to use the correct sex based spaces just because that person is gay. It’s not transphobic to want sex based spaces to be sex based. It’s safeguarding.

You’re not responsible for making everyone feel comfortable. It’s just shitty of you to make people feel uncomfortable in spaces you shouldn’t be in to begin with.

Show me a neutral, reputable source that claims man and woman are genders, and I will apologize for misgendering you and only refer to you as male from here on out. If you can’t, I’ve done nothing wrong.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I'm not taking anything from you I'm just trying to fix myself. To me it's comforting to know that even if I ultimately fail at least I never gave up and that I died never being at peace with what nature wants me to be.

Gay men are still men and gay women are still women so this is irrelevant.

Trans women are still women so ofc it's relevant.

Show me a neutral, reputable source that claims man and woman are genders

Already making it impossible for me, y'all love the dictionary but I know that citing it, or anyone in social sciences who knows that gender exists won't appease you.

Anyway that's not my point. It's still against the rules and is literally in the sidebar. Please just don't refer to me as anything.

Still though, if you say man is an adult human male then that's not me, because I am not an adult male, I never finished male puberty so I am not an "adult".

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

  1. Lmao to almost all of this comment. It’s all been addressed multiple times by multiple people on this post so I’m moving on

-2. So once again you can prove nothing. Shocker.

-3. I’ll call you a boy then, although if you’re over 18 you’re an adult regardless of whether you finished puberty just as you’re a man regardless of how you look or feel

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

So once again you can prove nothing. Shocker.

It's not like there's any proof you'd actually accept lol you just want to be right too.

I’ll call you a boy then, although if you’re over 18 you’re an adult regardless of whether you finished puberty just as you’re a man regardless of how you look or feel

Honestly that's better but it still only describes a biology that I'd rather keep secret and not how my life is at all. It's like telling me I'm brown-haired...like okay? Yeah technically under the dye but everyone thinks I'm blonde. Not sure if I'll ever get why people have to be defined by that in all situations regardless of how they live. What would be the point of calling myself a boy

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Do you have any idea how much I’d rather be wrong?! It would be so much easier for me to accept TW are women. The reason I can’t do that is because it can’t be proven. I’d rather believe it because regardless I have to be effected by it.

Why is it better to be called a boy if a boy is still a male? I just don’t get this.

If You dyed your hair blonde you’re a blonde though? Like not naturally but you can actually truly really have blonde hair. If your roots show people would know it’s not natural but you’d still be blonde? Sex doesn’t work that way, though. I have no problem in theory calling TW transwomen, but when TW call themselves women I stop using the term TW and just call them men. If they can’t just refer to themselves as TW then I’m not going to either, but I’m not going to pretend they are a woman. If you had never called yourself a woman id have never called you a man. I have no issue with using the term transwoman here.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

It would be so much easier for me to accept TW are women

Well I'm trying I'll let you know in the future I guess

Why is it better to be called a boy if a boy is still a male? I just don’t get this.

Idk it's still bad but at least it's not a man, only men abused me not boys, I promised I would never grow up to become one.

If You dyed your hair blonde you’re a blonde though? Like not naturally but you can actually truly really have blonde hair. If your roots show people would know it’s not natural but you’d still be blonde? Sex doesn’t work that way, though.

It's kinda the same though like obvi if someone were in my home and saw me in the shower or something they'd know but externally I'm still the same. Transitioning isn't as simple as dyeing hair gosh I wish it was.

Also yeah idk transwoman is such an othering term that puts me in a category totally apart from women. I'm not gonna call myself that even if it means people call me a man bc of it. I'd rather be seen as a trans woman, with the space, without having to convince people than rely on people's kindness in calling me a transwoman.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Does it ever occur to you that maybe your abuse as a boy impacted you having dysphoria and identifying as your perception of a woman? Genuinely asking, not making a point tho it does seem like it’s a factor to me.

My point is still that dyed or not, you’re literally a blonde. Sex isn’t something that can be changed, and woman is a sex based term. Being blonde means you have blonde hair, being a woman means you’re an adult female human.

You’re still relying on people’s kindness when they call you trans woman with the space. To most people transwoman/trans woman is just code for man. We may understand it to refer to a type of man who wants to present as a woman,and we may be kind enough to call them she/her and not call them men, but it’s still just a word we use out of politesse, it doesn’t mean we mean it or believe it. Same for transmen/trans men. It translates to us as a type of woman who wants to present as a man.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It's probably part of it, but even before that there were signs. Even if that was the catalyst I just see that as part of who I am, really. Being a man now wouldn't undo that trauma and I'm just not really interested in being seen that way.

Sex isn’t something that can be change

What about sex can't be in principle be changed?

You’re still relying on people’s kindness when they call you trans woman with the space

I don't like to rely on people's kindness though, it's unreliable and I feel guilty for it. I don't know which of my coworkers are GC if any. I don't really want to know. As long as I stay invisible then I won't be pressuring people to be polite.

And fwiw I think a lot of people also do really see trans men and women as men and women.