GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

People absolutely use the definition wtf are you even talking about?

The only reason anyone would actually see you as a woman (as you claim) is because they’d see you look female, if you didn’t/don’t look female, they’d immediately know you were trans. That’s because they understand that a woman is female. This of course wouldn’t mean you are a woman because you look female, it would simply mean they may mistake you for a female adult human, aka a woman. If they knew you weren’t female, they’d not see you as a woman regardless of your appearance unless they are a part of the minority of people who think TWAW no matter how they look

Presentation isn’t enough because it’s not fact and doesn’t erase fact. You have to withhold information to be seen as a woman. Women don’t have to do that.

What the word means for you doesn’t really matter, the word has a meaning and had a meaning before you and will have a meaning long after you are gone. You are using the word incorrectly. And it’s offensive and causes harm to the very people the word truly defines.

Distress over your body because…. It looks/looked male.

Not having to explain… what, exactly?

Again, if you can’t prove that biology isn’t relevant, it is relevant. You are something, you are many somethings, merely because of your biology. One of those things is male, and adult male humans are men. It’s super simple. You just don’t want it to be for purely selfish reasons.

I don’t feel like or identify as a woman. I am factually biologically literally a woman because the word has a meaning and I fit that meaning. You don’t. Protest all you want, doesn’t change the truth.

It’s not based on me feeling shit. It’s based on me understanding biology and how humans and sex works.

I don’t express myself as a woman, I express myself as Sloane and Sloane just happens to be an adult female human. Womanhood is not a fucking identity, expression, or presentation.

I, and many many others, do need more from you and other TW than just your assertion, precisely because you obviously have no way to back up and prove your assertion.

My womanhood and yours are not the same because even if we both feel and identify as women, only one of us can prove it to be true. The other (you, if that’s unclear) cannot prove it and instead relies on personal feelings. Being a woman has nothing whatsoever to do with personal feelings.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The only reason anyone would actually see you as a woman (as you claim) is because they’d see you look female, if you didn’t/don’t look female, they’d immediately know you were trans. That’s because they understand that a woman is female

Okay yeah that's what they say the definition is but not necessarily how they figure it out socially

it would simply mean they may mistake you for a female adult human, aka a woman

Even if they are mistaken that is socially meaningful because it determines what they think and how they treat me.

unless they are a part of the minority of people who think TWAW no matter how they look

Well I'm grateful that a lot of my friends are in this minority group, I feel safer around people who see me that way no matter how I look

You have to withhold information to be seen as a woman

But I'm still seen as one and that information isn't accessible. I'd love to not have to withhold info but I'll have to get SRS first.

are using the word incorrectly

I just don't get how it's incorrect when many others seem perfectly fine to apply it to me. Seeming like I am is good enough.

Distress over your body because

Because I have anxiety over whether enough aspects of me are passing. Because I hate having male genitalia and looking at myself in the mirror

Not having to explain… what, exactly?

Not having to explain that I'm a woman even if I was born a certain way. All identities are selfish, so I cannot always expect people to acknowledge my feelings as meaningful. So I don't give them the chance, by letting them mistake me

It’s not based on me feeling shit. It’s based on me understanding biology and how humans and sex works.

And for me it's based on understanding that I'm just not a man regardless of what people say. That biology is or will be mutable and that I don't have to be what I'm "supposed" to be

I don’t express myself as a woman, I express myself as Sloane

I mean same I express myself as derrple and part of that includes living as if I am an adult human female

The other (you, if that’s unclear) cannot prove it and instead relies on personal feelings.

Why do you think I'm transitioning then? If how others think of me isn't enough then I'll just need a few years, to get surgery and eventually more.

I get the feeling you don't actually want proof, that there's nothing that would ever convince you I'm a woman. I could come to you with indisputable proof that souls are real and I was going to be born afab but something went wrong, and I'm sure it wouldn't matter. If that's the case, then trans women's solidarity should be on the basis that many of us are perceived as women regardless of fact even if you don't think we actually "are"

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s not what they say the definition is. It’s what the definition is. It’s what the fucking word means. Period. And socially they do figure it out based on that word. Again- you have to conceal/withhold information for people who know you to think you’re a woman. You have to drastically alter your body to be seen as a woman alter it by making it look as female as you possibly can. This just reinforces what I’m saying. Someone mistaking you for a woman and you not being honest doesn’t make you a woman. It only makes you a man who looks like a woman. And only then, if someone doesn’t know the obvious tells that TW can’t alter. If someone knows to look at certain parts of your body because they really really need to defect TW for some reason, they’d know. And if they told anyone and it got around- you’d no longer be seen as a woman. This is perhaps a ridiculous hypothetical- but it could happen because it’s not a hypothetical that’s not based on things we can’t perceive or that could reasonably happen.

SRS is not going to make you indistinguishable lmao. Neovaginas don’t look or function like vaginas. The “vaginal canal” isn’t even in the same place. Even if everything else is perfect, that alone gives you away unless someone doesn’t know what a vagina looks like.

Others seeing you as a woman because they don’t know you aren’t one doesn’t make you one. There’s a reason you don’t tell them you’re trans. That’s proving my point. You know if they knew, they’d see you differently. If you thought you were a woman, you would have no problem admitting to being trans because that wouldn’t make you not a woman. The fact that you withhold that info proves you know what I’m saying is true. So just because you assume others don’t know (as I said on the deleted post, it’s possible they do but just haven’t said anything) doesn’t change what I’m saying. It means you can pass. The concept of passing relies on people not knowing you’re passing but knowing what a woman is. Without the understanding that woman= adult female human, it wouldn’t matter if you pass or don’t.

You simply can’t live as something you aren’t. You can live as someone pretending to be something you aren’t. Many people do, trans or not.

I think you’re transitioning because you have dysphoria. A mental illness that literally reinforces the fact that you are not a woman.