GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Juniperius 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (70 children)

Tell me, who am I supposed to ask for permission to be a woman? You? Sorry but I've spent years asking and the only answer I ever get is that I can't, I get told to just be a gnc man, etc--basically impossible answers that I can't hope to adhere to without hurting myself.

Do you apply this logic to everything?

I've asked repeatedly for some of your French fries and you keep saying no, so I'm just going to take them anyway?

I've spent years asking the citizens of my town to put me on the city court, and they keep telling me no, so I'm just going to commit a coup?

I've spent years asking someone to have sex with me, and she keeps telling me that she doesn't want to, so I'm going to slip her a roofie?

Sometimes the answer is no. That doesn't mean you didn't ask enough times.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (69 children)

No, just in cases where it affects an identity I've had my entire life. Also idk it's gross to compare it to slipping someone something in their drink when there isn't any concrete person's autonomy being violated here. Who's hurt by me being a woman?

[–]comradeconradical 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (68 children)

Who is hurt by you pretending to be a woman? Everyone who is forced to play along or face backlash, everyone who has to ignore their instincts for social cohesion, everyone who has to give up their privacy to accommodate you, everyone who has to ignore reality for your benefit.

Your identity does not exist separate from society, and by claiming to be a woman, you negatively impact women and their female-specific rights and issues. Frankly, it's insulting to many of us who are actually female and socialized as girls in a sexist society our entire lives.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (67 children)

How am I making people do that when I don't tell anyone irl I'm trans? And what privacy would even be given up?

Why is it insulting just because I wasn't raised that way? How many years of living do I need to go through as an adult before it will matter more than the childhood I never chose? When I'm 37 can I say I'm a woman then?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (59 children)

Woman is not a title that is earned, bestowed, or given to anyone. As unfair as you may find it, there is no equation or formula or set of rites that can make anyone a woman.

A person is or isn’t and that’s all there is to it. I’d like to be tall and to be able to survive at 32kgs and have previously deluded myself into believing the latter is possible. It isn’t though, and nothing will make it so, even if it torments me.

Sometimes shit just happens the way we don’t want it to and it cannot be changed. Acceptance of the impossible is healthy.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (58 children)

I simply don't believe that, nothing is impossible. I won't accept something that viscerally wrong.

[–]Juniperius 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

All sorts of things are impossible, what on earth are you going on about?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Do you mean like, physically? Sure, like, maybe reversing entropy is impossible. But sex change is not, the only barrier is medical knowledge and ability? Like if we could engineer a helpful virus to modify the DNA of every cell, etc.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (55 children)

You can choose denial but acceptance would be better for you in the long run. Why wait an entire lifetime for an impossibility when there is the possibility for greater self acceptance while you’re alive

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (54 children)

Because that self-acceptance would require me to accept something that feels and has always felt incredibly wrong to me. I would be a different person entirely and so it's kind of pointless to accept that because "I" wouldn't be around to live that life; it'd be some version of me content with being amab. That's so unfamiliar to me that I find it totally unrelatable.

Also idk it took me forever to accept that I'm trans and I'm still kind of ashamed of it so I'd rather not tax my mental health with accepting additional things

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (53 children)

And you don’t think it’s better to accept the unchangeable, maybe improve some patterns of thought like the ones that say maleness is the worst torture imaginable?

Preferring not to process information that is painful is not a healthy practice. If you prefer not to tax yourself with accepting material reality that’s your choice, but it’s not a healthy one.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (52 children)

I just cannot accept something that I did not choose and that has felt wrong to me my entire life. I don't think it's the worst torture imaginable for everyone, just for me. Idk what information I could "process" that would in any way improve my situation or how I conceptualize myself. You can let biology control you but I don't think that's healthy either

[–]comradeconradical 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you're not female nothing you do will make me say you're a woman. Transwoman at best.

Also, "passing" is in the eyes of the beholder.

Female women have the right to sex-segregated spaces, and when males infringe on this they are forcing women to give up their privacy.

[–]Juniperius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

When I'm 37 can I say I'm a woman then?

No.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It just seems incredibly backwards to insist that someone is forever whatever they were in childhood and people cannot ever change. I'm going to continue to believe in change, I guess.

[–]Juniperius 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Look, I'd love to go back in time and undo the trauma I experienced as a child that has had certain difficult effects on my life. I just can't. I can grow and heal myself to a degree, but I can't ever be the person I would have been if it hadn't happened. It has had permanent effects on my nervous system and my ability to attach healthily in relationships. I can develop workarounds, that's all.

I also can't be, say, the world's best gymnast, or best violinist. It's just too late. Even if I had had the potential for that, I would have had to start training when I was very young. I can't go back to when I was like, five and start learning the Suzuki method.

And you can't go back in time to when you were an egg and select an x-sperm instead of a y-sperm. Time goes one way, that's all there really is to it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Sending a virtual hug for all of that <3...

I mean that's what I'm doing too, developing workarounds. I'd still like to erase all my childhood memories and forget I was ever amab or abused someday, but I will settle for what I can do right now. I kinda have to, it's this or nothing.

I've felt like it's too late for me since I was really young. But even if we can't be the best we want to be, we can at least try and find solace in the little things, you know? Even if you can't be the best violinist you could still play and get value out of that I guess. Even if I can't actually be female I still get by a lot easier by transitioning

[–]Juniperius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not to derail into a discussion of trauma, because my point in the previous comment is just that some things can't be changed, but: a major aspect of dealing with trauma is not making it other people's problem. Like, I'm probably just past the developmental stage where I could have learned secure attachment, so I'm probably always going to have fear of abandonment and so forth. But through the internal work I do, I'm able to decrease the amount that I hurt other people and blame it on trauma. This seems like the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish by transitioning. It seems like you're just trying to feel better yourself at any cost to others.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tbf you don't really know how much I stress out about literally everything x( I empathize with the fear of abandonment and not wanting to make something someone else's problem. That's exactly why I don't want to tell people except in controlled situations (i.e on the internet). Idk most ppl who actually know me like exes or even people on this sub I've known for years will tell you I'm a nervous wreck. In transitioning I am trying to take my life and biology into my own hands and I've partially done so. It's great! I just feel stuck because I was born too early for some things. I'll probably never have kids, etc