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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

The fact that you refer to trans women as "males" will more likely cause people to accuse you of transphobia.

Anyway, Keira Bell is a detransitioned woman and I can understand how how someone like her in appearance and voice could be mistaken for a trans woman.

Also I think its obvious I'm referring to trans women who don't pass.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The fact that you refer to trans women as "males" will more likely cause people to accuse you of transphobia.

Yeah, so? I've been called worse; and I can take it. It's you I was talking about. I thought appearing transphobic is something you'd want to avoid at all costs, and being accused of transphobia is something you might be concerned about.

Tellingly, you didn't address any of my points. Instead, you immediately brought up Keira Bell and tried to make it seem like the issue you raised is whether

someone like her in appearance and voice could be mistaken for a trans woman.

Which is ridiculous. Look at Bell's face, hands, feet, body shape, bone structure and the way Bell moves and walks.

Keira Bell is also totally beside the point in this particular convo, which you started. Because you specifically asked

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

Or someone who appears to be a trans woman?

Now you say:

I think its obvious I'm referring to trans women who don't pass.

But I thought passing didn't matter? That trans people don't owe it to the world to do anything to change their appearance to try to pass as the opposite sex. Because everyone is just supposed to believe that trans people are whatever sex they say they are.

Also, since you brought up "passing": who decides who "passes"? Most males who identify as trans think and insist that they pass, but many female people like me disagree. Whose perception do you think should win out here?

The central point remains: the questions you raised are a tacit admission that you believe women (who are GC) can always, usually or frequently tell when males are in women's restrooms, no matter how those males identify or present. This goes against the fundamental part of the QT creed which says that none of us can ever tell because it's impossible for anyone to figure out if adult and post-pubescent males are actually male without "looking in their pants" and doing DNA tests.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, so? I've been called worse; and I can take it. It's you I was talking about. I thought appearing transphobic is something you'd want to avoid at all costs, and being accused of transphobia is something you might be concerned about.

I have multiple reddit accounts and on one of them I used to regularly post on r/gendercynical a few years back and no one ever accused me of transphobia. I have never once been accused of transphobia in my life.

Which is ridiculous. Look at Bell's face, hands, feet, body shape, bone structure and the way Bell moves and walks.

There are people who are assigned male at birth with the same features.

But I thought passing didn't matter?

Passing ultimately doesn't matter but a passing trans woman will of course not be questioned in the woman's restroom so in this context it's relevant.

Also, since you brought up "passing": who decides who "passes"? Most males who identify as trans think and insist that they pass, but many female people like me disagree. Whose perception do you think should win out here?

My question is ultimately referring to anyone who is perceived by GC as a trans woman. Some trans woman do pass, like Jazz Jennings, Laverne Cox and MJ Rodriguez. Caitlyn Jenner doesn't pass but that's just my perception.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have multiple reddit accounts and on one of them I used to regularly post on r/gendercynical a few years back and no one ever accused me of transphobia. I have never once been accused of transphobia in my life.

Sorry, but I find this very hard to believe. I mean, it's the internet: people argue for dumb stuff like the color of a dress, misunderstandings happens (and what someone intended to be an obvious sarcasm, others take it seriously), and sometimes people make stuff up for whatever reason, including just for trolling. But you are tellling me you are active in online groups surrounded by vindictive people who are quick to take offense at reality and who are changing the rules all the time, and yet you've never been told you said something "transphobic? And we know you hold some opinions that some QT would find deeply transphobic like the fact you would only date post-op "transmen", and yet you've never been told you hold some "problematic beliefs", really?