Calls for trans elimination

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Desiring the elimination of gender dysphoria in this context means the creation of a treatment that alleviates dysphoria without the need for extreme and invasive procedures like surgery and interfering with healthy puberty.

And you don't want us to have a choice in this? That's what's terrifying.

I don't want your "cure", I don't want to be a cis male. The solution can't be to just make it so there won't ever be any trans people again, because they'll all be "cured". There's meaning in my life that wouldn't be there if I weren't trans, that meaning is worth preserving, transition is worth preserving as an option.

A culture is not an organic state of being, no. It’s a living complex system formed by the individuals who make it up. It’s informed by the experiences and knowledge and values of the people in it. Cultures do not simply crop up organically from the ground.

How can an internal identity also be a culture?

Don't you think that trans culture is informed by its members? It's like any culture, it's part of your identity, idk if I'm missing something but I don't see the issue there?

More importantly, what religion, race, ethnicity, or nation do transgendered people have in common for genocide to be taking place?

Transness is a belief system then.

but to unequivocally cure dysphoria without requiring the alteration of the body and the complications that often come with it. This is not murder, it is not cruelly leaving people with dysphoria suffering without recourse.

It is erasing who we are to make us just like everyone else, without giving us a choice in who we want to be.

They could be free of dysphoria and not be subjected to unethical and predatory medicalisation. There’s no forcible reduction at all. It’s simply the option of better treatments

"Better" is completely subjective. Being cured of dysphoria and being cis does not sound better than being on hormones my whole life at all.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Where are you getting the idea that there will be no choice available?

In what way is a better option for some the same thing as killing?

Perhaps a cure for dysphoria is not for you, but there are many who are so tortured by it that they would take a cure in a heartbeat. This doesn’t make them bad people.

A cure for dysphoria would only prevent someone from being who they want to be if who they want to be is merely defined as trans. A person can still be a parent, or an engineer, or a comedian, or charitable, funny, kind, hardworking, loyal, generous, etc etc without the condition of dysphoria being present.

It’s unreasonable to say that because you would reject a cure, a cure is evil.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Where are you getting the idea that there will be no choice available?

I mean Helen was saying she wants to reduce the number of people who transition, idk that doesn't sound willing to me, it sounds like, because she described us all as being a problem, that we wouldn't get a say in that..

In what way is a better option for some the same thing as killing?

If you force it on people then there won't be any trans people anymore and our culture and group would be erased.

Perhaps a cure for dysphoria is not for you, but there are many who are so tortured by it that they would take a cure in a heartbeat

I honestly forget the name of it, but I remember a survey that was done asking trans people whether they would accept a cure for dysphoria. Usually those who hadn't been transitioning for very long would say yes, and those who had would say no.

So that inclines me to think that, having the option to transition there, and not demonizing the option, is necessary because someone may not know what they want in the future. If they only base their decision on "cure" as a default, but they could have been happy either way, then that's one trans person erased.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Multiple people have already told you that you’re misinterpreting Helen.

So a cure shouldn’t be an option because some people won’t take it?

I cannot believe that transitioning leads to the everlasting perfect happiness promised by those who sell the means of transitioning. Not when every online trans community is filled with people talking at length about their misery and frustration and botched surgery.

An offer is not a forced hand. Transition is not the only possible option for happiness for other people despite what you feel. Your feelings are yours, not a universal transgender experience.

If a trans person electing to cure their dysphoria is being eliminated by the enemy, so is suicide by transgendered people. This would mean the large scale elimination is being enacted by transgendered people.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

So a cure shouldn’t be an option because some people won’t take it?

Nono sorry it can be just like, it shouldn't be pushed over other options I guess.

I cannot believe that transitioning leads to the everlasting perfect happiness promised by those who sell the means of transitioning

It would if we had complete transition care and everyone passed and surgery was like an organ transplant. We're not there yet. I'll admit I'm miserable but this is better than nothing.

This would mean the large scale elimination is being enacted by transgendered people.

People choosing to do that is their choice though, they're not imposing their will onto someone else, just taking a way out.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

People choosing to do that is their choice though, they're not imposing their will onto someone else, just taking a way out

So are people who would take the cure but you say they have been eliminated by people like Helen Joyce?

Transitioning would be perfect if it was magic? Well yes, but it isn’t magic is it? Human bodies are not capable of slotting together like paper dolls or Lego. It cannot be reconfigured to suit our whims. Knowing this, it seems cruel to promote as a superior option to total alleviation of dysphoria.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I'd say that encouraging or pushing the cure would make those encouraging it culpable

We just need more time to be able to reconfigure bodies to suit people's whims. Encouraging people to just take the cure and be "normal" is having them give up, we shouldn't encourage people to give up

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Culpable for what lol? Curing a terribly depressing condition like dysphoria

All the time there is will not make the human body a Lego kit. A cure is not giving up. That’s like saying one day chemotherapy will be perfect so a radical mastectomy today is just giving up, not saving someone with breast cancer.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yes!

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

So they’d be doing a wonderful, helpful, useful thing. I’m not sure culpablenis quite the term.