Calls for trans elimination

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

And you really honestly can’t see any flaws with people thinking the kitten is a dog?

No? Not on its own. You could very easily take care of its diet privately and just let people outside think of it as a dog. Like I have to exist in my body every day and shower and do my injection but I don't tell people about that.

Would you, right now, dose a kitten with large dog wormer?

If my understanding or impression of it was as a dog then yeah I would because I could not know otherwise.

Would you say it’s merely a theory that a human requires oxygen or water? Do we not measure temperature, weight, height, density, or light?

Not with total accuracy...and yeah it's possible that there could be someone who just inexplicably doesn't require water or air.

There’s two flaws here, one is that people are notoriously dishonest about how well people pass in order to be polite, meaning their perception is not truly of a woman but if a male who clearly wants to be a woman.

"We can always tell" in action x(

Do y'all not think that some trans ppl think about this like...all the time?? Every interaction I have with someone irl I'm worrying about whether they've clocked me. I look for if people hesitate, if they look at me too long. It happens very rarely. Maybe you're notoriously dishonest about how well people pass, in which case I hope never to meet you irl because I would be really scared of you, but most ppl don't seem to consider trans ppl existing very often.

It also assumes that any facsimile or simulacrum of an object is also the same thing as the object

This is pretty much exactly what I believe, unironically.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I didn’t ask if you could lie to everyone and claim it’s a dog. I asked it if is a dog and can be medically treated like one.

I’m sure passing and knowing that polite society lies about it is extremely stressful. That doesn’t alter the fact that you are operating on what I believe to be a faulty premise.

I’m afraid that males presenting themselves as women might rape me, maim me, secretly film me using a public toilet. A trans woman’s fear that I will silently know they are not female hardly feels comparable.

Do you often find yourself choosing to believe things even when they have been proven false or impossible?

Do you often find yourself eating imitation foods by accident or do you know the difference when it actually matters?

Could you please answer the part about the ibuprofen? Would it be safe to eat ten boxes if I perceive it as harmless or would I suffer poisoning regardless of what I perceive?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I’m afraid that males presenting themselves as women might rape me, maim me, secretly film me using a public toilet

Do you see trans women as a threat but not women, then? Is there anything we could do to not, idk, be a threat? I don't want to make anyone afraid.

I didn’t ask if you could lie to everyone and claim it’s a dog

I'm having trouble understanding how it can't be a dog in one context and not in a medical context, I think.

That doesn’t alter the fact that you are operating on what I believe to be a faulty premise.

What do you mean, sorry

Do you often find yourself choosing to believe things even when they have been proven false or impossible?

I mean me believing I'm a woman should be false or impossible but it's like the one thing I'm sure of, so yes?

Do you often find yourself eating imitation foods by accident

I have pica so yes I end up eating things that aren't food actually :/

And imitation food can still be "real" food until you go to eat it, you know? Just like to some men I'm a "real" woman until I tell them, I guess

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I see all males as a potential threat, regardless of their attire, styling, grooming habits, or presentation. Thirty years of experience has proven this is the only way I can protect myself from male violence.

The animal discussed is objectively a kitten. It is incorrectly perceived as a large dog. I am asking if the kitten can be safely given a medicine dosage for a large dog, because reality is defined by perception, or if this would harm the kitten, meaning objective reality does not bend to perceptions.

I’m not asking you if your perception of yourself is false, I’m asking if you often truly believe things like “model furniture is useable despite being 1:12scale” or “arsenic is only poisonous if I know it’s poison”

So you would say that a wax orange is exactly as nutritious as a real orange? It’s just as juicy until it’s bitten into?

Pics is a specific craving for non-food objects which would mean you are able to differentiate a papier-mâché apple from a real one despite the two items looking like apples.

I’m not discussing you personally and think it would help immensely if you could also remove yourself from the conversation on a personal level and try to approach this with a wider frame of reference than just yourself.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I see all males as a potential threat, regardless of their attire, styling, grooming habits, or presentation. Thirty years of experience has proven this is the only way I can protect myself from male violence.

Why don't we eliminate male violence then? We should :/

I guess I never know how to talk about this. I know it's not about me and never was. I just feel so totally helpless when there's nothing I can do to change that. I don't want to be like the string of abusive men who've hurt me or people I know or you.

The animal discussed is objectively a kitten. It is incorrectly perceived as a large dog. I am asking if the kitten can be safely given a medicine dosage for a large dog, because reality is defined by perception, or if this would harm the kitten, meaning objective reality does not bend to perceptions.

That's still just in a medical context though. In another area, the kitten looking like a large dog does actually bend perceptions. Or, idk, the kitten could fake being okay with the dose.

So you would say that a wax orange is exactly as nutritious as a real orange? It’s just as juicy until it’s bitten into?

No but until I bite into it I can't know if it's real or not, so if there were a wax orange that desperately wanted to be real, it would be possible for it to be seen that way as long as it's careful.

I’m not discussing you personally and think it would help immensely if you could also remove yourself from the conversation on a personal level and try to approach this with a wider frame of reference than just yourself.

I don't know if I'm mature enough to ever remove myself emotionally from these conversations, honestly. I forgot how much this place gets to me, I'm really sorry for that.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Why don’t we take unicorns and grow wings at the same time as eliminating violence in males? They are equally possible aims.

I certainly don’t blame you for male violence, and hope you know you shouldn’t feel any responsibility for the choices those men made.

I’m sorry but I’m going to be unable to carry on any conversation if you’re going to be intellectually dishonest.

You know the cat would die. It cannot magicLly develop the body of a dog because someone thinks that should be so. This is not a medical context, this is a question of whether or not a cat and a dog are different animals.

The wax orange isn’t food and you wouldn’t bite it and go “mmm fresh fruit” even if you’re very careful to not admit this.

You’ve been a good sport answering but it feels like you’re just wasting my time, efforts, and good faith by deliberately engaging in intellectually dishonest arguments.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Why don’t we take unicorns and grow wings at the same time as eliminating violence in males? They are equally possible aims.

Idk if unicorn wings would make people safer

I’m sorry but I’m going to be unable to carry on any conversation if you’re going to be intellectually dishonest.

I'm actually pretty honest in this place I'm not just making stuff up this is what I actually think.

You know the cat would die. It cannot magicLly develop the body of a dog because someone thinks that should be so.

You know that if I had to get a medical treatment that would kill a male but would be fine for someone female that I would do it anyway? Maybe being a dog is so important to the cat that it would prefer that to being revealed. Of course cats and dogs are different animals, but a cat should be able to pretend to be a dog in most contexts if it's the only way it can get through life.

I'm not trying to waste your time, I guess I'm not sure why I came back here. It's not good for my mental health, I end up a tearful mess, so yeah I understand if you don't feel it's worth it to engage with me going forward, I'm sorry.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I’m not saying you’re being dishonest, as in lying, I’m saying I feel you are not engaging with arguments fully and are deliberately diverting discussion away from things you find unanswerable.

Ie. saying that a cat could maybe pretend to not be poisoned thus making it a dog because someone perceived it incorrectly as a large dog.

Idk why you decided to make this about a sapient cat just trying to get through life as a trans dog but it’s clear that was not what the questions were about. That’s intellectual dishonesty.

Seriously, I really really hope you take good care of yourself and don’t let this place hurt your emotional well-being. We might not agree on lots but I don’t think anyone here wants you hurting.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I just don't really have any trouble seeing a things identity as contextual or in flux? It can be an "actual" dog when you meet it on the street or a cat when you give it medication, yeah if I had more information it's not an "actual" dog but it might as well be in some situations? That matters much more to me than what it "actually" is. Maybe I'm not great at expressing it or need to think about it more.

Seriously, I really really hope you take good care of yourself and don’t let this place hurt your emotional well-being

Thanks, aha but it's probably a bit late for that, not your fault. Being here puts me in a state somewhere between manic optimism and soul-crushing despair. I've been doing well at distracting myself from that feeling for months now, but I guess I am still only human and I feel compelled to be around people who don't like me, or at least see me in a way I don't like.

I've just been seeing all that's going on and it really scares me, but thank you for all of the kind words ❤️ and you should take care of yourself as well!

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah the problem is that you are refusing to accept that how you see things may not be universal or necessarily correct, coupled with an inability to consider the perspectives of people who do not see things exactly as you do.

Take care. I don’t dislike you. We fundamentally disagree but there’s no hard feelings towards you.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Or, idk, the kitten could fake being okay with the dose

How old are you? Like a general age range

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Mid-20s, I'm kind of ashamed of how old I am idk

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Your age isn't the problem. The problem is that you have a childlike understanding of the world and you are letting this very underdeveloped, naive world view dictate decisions to have major, irreversible, life-changing surgeries. You are surrounded by people, including doctors, who will only affirm your desires, regardless if they are grounded in reality or not. I'm not trying to attack you at all. I'm very concerned for you based on the things you've expressed over the last couple of days, after reflecting on them and seeing the above comment that I quoted. You do not have a realistic understanding of what surgeries will do for you. I would urge you to send a PM to u/peakingatthemoment, who is a transwoman who may be kind enough to offer you guidance and help you to better understand biology and your own body. You should be informed before you undergo any surgeries. Good luck.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I’ve known u/derrple for a few years since the old debate sub. They’ve already made permanent decisions and probably don’t agree with me on much anyway in much anyway. I’m probably not the best person to talk someone out of surgery either because it was the right choice for me. It helped my life immensely. I doubt I would happily married with family now if I hadn’t done that. That doesn’t mean it would be right for most people or their couldn’t be complications and it’s probably better if you could cope with natural genitals because surgery isn’t perfect, but if you can’t it helps a lot and can make dating much easier. I know no one wants hear that, but it was true for me…

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wasn't asking you to talk derrple out of surgery. I was asking you to help derrple make an informed decision since they clearly believe surgery will make them physically female, so if they DO get surgery it will be for the right reasons. I guess if you're gonna shrug your shoulders about derrple not understanding basic biology and say 'well it worked for me' then you are right, you're not the person to help derrple.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You don't have to apologize for the surgeries you've had peaking. It's not wrong to say that it helps some people, it clearly does. I've wanted SRS for years and I was only temporarily dissuaded by that awful surgery propaganda sub that used to exist. But I'd rather have an eldritch abomination than a penis.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Where is my understanding of what surgery will do for me faulty?

I've known peaking for a long time and talking to them isn't going to make my surgical need any less. Even if I have SRS and the results were awful, that is still better to me than currently. I don't care if it makes intimacy more difficult either, that's already difficult for me and I've been looking to cut it out of my life.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Like thinking it will literally give you female primary sex characteristics, make you female, or eventually allow transwomen to birth children. Honestly I don't feel comfortable debating with you anymore. Good luck.