Calls for trans elimination

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

She is advocating for genocide, she is calling to reduce the number of people who transition.

then can you tell us how they survived before the 20th century?

They didn't, not at scale. Some were lucky and some reluctantly lived with a hole in their lives they could never fill. I do not necessarily have their strength. Why should we return to that state though? We have access to hormone therapy now, we should not have to give that up.

Also, don't you think threathening suicide to get what you want sounds manipulative?

Don't you think wanting to infiltrate organizations because you know will never get popular support, which is part of what Helen Joyce called for, sounds manipulative?

Suicide is a cry for help, it's horrible to assume malice from someone who is suffering. It's us telling you "we need this and would rather not live without it" and you saying "well I don't care, you won't manipulate me into caring"

It's your side the one who rejects any kind of compromise.

Your compromises are seemingly always of a form that will lead to trans suffering. Reducing the number of those who transition is not a compromise. Trans people are not going to go away, attempts to change that are not a compromise.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Suicide is a cry for help,

No it's not. Please don't say that. Yes, some people who make suicide attempts and threats are issuing a cry for help. But many people who consider, attempt and actually commit suicide simply want to end their lives, and they are, well, dead serious about it. They aren't trying to get other people's attention, and they don't want help. They want out.

Not everyone thinks and operates the way you do. Not everything that everyone else does is a way of trying to get other people to pay attention to them.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Do you not think that in wanting to end their lives, they are in need of help? A hug, or support?

When I contemplated suicide shortly before DIYing hormones, I didn't tell anyone irl. I'd just go back to my dorm every day and think about how I could disappear forever. I got what I needed, but many don't, sadly.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Whether people who are suicidal are in need of help is an entirely different issue to whether some people use suicide as a way to get attention and help. I was disagreeing with your claim that suicide is a cry for help.

I think that many people who are seriously suicidal do not want help, and some are beyond help. But in the case of those who can be helped, a hug won't do it - nor sex hormones, either.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Hormones worked for me : P

I don't think anyone is beyond help, I guess, we shouldn't stop trying to save people

I recognize that some who are suicidal don't want help but I feel like it's dangerous to assume that, we should still try to help even if it's pointless

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Hormones worked for me : P

You are one person, though. Your experience is not representative of the experience of the rest of the human race, FFS. Your personal experience is especially not representative of those who are female, with female anatomy and physiology, or those who have experienced severe clinical depression with genuine suicidal ideation in a seriously life-limiting/disabling way for a sustained length of time.

As one of the tens of millions of women summarily yanked off and then denied exogenous estrogen for menopause because of the findings of the Women's Health Initiative Study released in 2002 - as well as one of the many people who's had to make do and muddle through despite experiencing severe treatment-resistant clinical depression for a lot longer than you've been alive - I find the way you talk of suicide and the sex hormone estradiol to be very flip, superficial, callow, massively entitled and very insensitive. Indeed, it comes off to me as kinda callous. I know that's not what you intend, but since you are so hyper-focused on, and worried about, how others perceive you, I think it's worth mentioning.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

As one of the tens of millions of women summarily yanked off and then denied exogenous estrogen for menopause because of the findings of the Women's Health Initiative Study Results study released in 2002

That sounds awful, I'm so sorry :(

Yeah I don't blame you, hormone imbalance always contributes to my depression as well, the times I've been missing medication weren't pleasant. I definitely think you should have access to that if you want it.

I know that's not what you intend, but since you are so hyper-focused on and worried about how others perceive you, I think it's worth mentioning.

I used to worry about it a ton with people online but now I would rather be honest than be afraid to say what I'm thinking, I guess. But I'm not like, an unfeeling person or anything, I don't wish badly on anyone here.

And idk how I could "represent" cis women or female anatomy and physiology with my thoughts, because I'm not a cis woman.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I appreciate you engaging. You have put up with a lot of opposition here in the past couple of days, and you have been a really good sport about it. You could have just packed off in a huff long ago.

Since I've given you negative feedback, here's a bit of positive: you're showing a considerable amount of "good faith" and resilience. I find that very impressive and admirable. I tip my hat to you.

I really do wish you well. Please if you go ahead with your surgeries, let people here know. Take care.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thanks! Idk I don't let myself be angry, especially not over this. Hating anyone just eats at me so I try to speak in good faith, I guess.

Also wait, why would I tell people here when I get surgery? Like, do you mean based on my results?

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I said please let us know about the surgery/ies so we can cross our fingers for you, and root for you. Some posters might even say a prayer for you too. On the quiet, of course. Also, to let us know that you are okay afterwards.

And if it goes swimmingly and turns out as wonderful as you hope, so you can shout in our faces: See, I told you so!

But no pressure. I didn't mean to be prying. The important thing is to take care of yourself.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I would like to know you’re well after surgery. No details about your body are needed, but I’ll hope you’re recovering well.