Wpath and the eunuch archives

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (71 children)

I hate Blanchard because I see him as a chaser whose ideology has hurt trans women who subscribe to it. Literally for years I was afraid to be bi and be attracted to women because I didn't want to be "AGP". There's literally nothing different in how trans women love other women, and how cis women do.

Many of those issues are due to blockers; we should be giving teens cross-sex hormones instead, the same way we would for adults. They can desist or detransition later.

Also, one of those links talks about cyproterone, an anti-androgen that is rarely prescribed in the US, so this seems more like an issue of which medications are best rather than "we shouldn't let anyone transition". Not to mention the abstract specifically mentions that those conditions are rare. Every medication has risks yet medicine goes on. It shouldn't be different for trans people.

The median age starting hrt in that study was 31, how is that indicative for trans teens anyway?

In terms of mortality, minority stress is probably also a factor. With whole groups bearing down on you bent on erasing you from existence it's not hard to imagine you'd be more stressed and die younger.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Many of those issues are due to blockers; we should be giving teens cross-sex hormones instead, the same way we would for adults. They can desist or detransition later.

Who is the "we" here?

Why are adult trans activists so intent on issuing diktats saying other people's minor children should be given powerful prescription drugs and artificial hormones that will impede their natural development and impair their sexual function?

Most of the tweens and teens seeking medical "transition" today are females. I'm wondering why you think you have sufficient insight and expertise on the health of female children, adolescents and adults to dictate that during their tweens and teens, large numbers of girls should be put on exogenous Big Pharma testosterone - an addictive, harmful substance whose manufacture, sale and use in most jurisdictions is tightly controlled because of the dangers it poses to human health, particularly the health of developing females.

The former GDR (East Germany) did a de facto large-scale experiment showing that regularly dosing human females with exogenous testosterone/androgens during their tween, teen and 20s has devastating, totally irreversible effects on their near-term, medium-term and long-term physical health and mental wellbeing, and shortens their lives. Why would you wish this horrible fate on so many girls today?

Do you make posts dictating what medical treatments other groups of youngsters - particularly girls - should get? Or just girls who are distressed about gender and sex issues - girls who if allowed to develop naturally and with proper mental health support might grow up to be strong "GNC" women unwilling to take shit from males - no matter how the males say they identify?

Hmm, what's up with that?

With whole groups bearing down on you bent on erasing you from existence

I can relate to this 100% because I feel that that whole groups, including trans activists, are bearing down on people like me, hell bent on erasing us from existence.

Grownups of the sex that has given birth to every man, woman, boy and girl ever to have lived - and have done by far the bulk raising children - are increasingly being told we no longer can have the sports, spaces, services and rights that generations of women fought tooth and nail to obtain. Indeed, we're no longer even allowed to have any words for ourselves and our own "lived experience."

Woman, girl, lady, female, mother, sister, daughter, aunt, she, her - males have laid claim to all the words for people like me. People like me have been informed by people like you that we are now a second-class subset of our own sex class, and in the name of "inclusion" we must be called dehumanizing terms like "cis," menstruators, cervix-owners, uterus havers, carriers, gestators, birthing bodies, bodies with vaginas, chestfeeders, old bints, dried up cxnts, whxres, dinosaurs, Karens, bleeders and the like.

At the same time, the female body part that people like me use for activities like menstruating and giving birth no longer can be called a vagina, because according to orgs like the HRC, that's a word that people like you have decided to appropriate for yourselves. So now the part of my body that used to be considered part of the "birth canal" is now to be called "front hole" - and other such neologisms as "Barbie pouch."

On top of this, when people like me protest our dehumanization, erasure and the constant abuse we get from gender identity ideologues - particularly the male ones, but not exclusively the male ones, sadly - we're told that advocating for ourselves and having any kinds of boundaries that cause us ever to say "no" to the males who insist they are us is now bigotry, hatred and violence akin to the racist white supremacy that led to Naziism, the Holocaust and apartheid.

You really think your group is the one group in all the world that suffers the most "minority stress"?

Jan Morris lived until 94. Morris said that in more than 50 years living openly as "male to female transsexual," Morris never suffered a moment of "minority stress" due to to Morris's unusual "gender identity." Morris remained just as celebrated after "transition" as Morris was beforehand - in fact, Morris raked in more awards and accolades. Morris apparently never suffered any inconvenience due to gender identity either, as Morris's devoted wife stuck around till the end. The dutiful wife raised their 5 kids pretty much singlehandedly whilst Jan continued focusing on career achievements post-transition just as single-mindedly as pre-transition, kept house, made all of Jan's food, did Jan's laundry, researched Jan's projects, typed Jan's manuscripts, and until Jan's dying breath, always put Jan first.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (69 children)

I see him as a chaser whose ideology has hurt trans women who subscribe to it.

Just because Blanchard acknowledges that natal males who are aroused at the idea of themselves as women often transition doesn't mean he likes trans porn. There are lots of natal female women who acknowledge this, and they don't fetishize transpeople, so acknowledging that AGP exists doesn't make you a "chaser".

Literally for years I was afraid to be bi and be attracted to women because I didn't want to be "AGP".

Not all transwomen attracted to women are AGP -- though most are. There is evidence to suggest that a small minority of bisexual transwomen and so-called "transbians" are dealing with autoandrophobia, which stems from being abused by a male at a young age. Additionally, there are gender nonconforming natal males attracted to women who were nonconforming from a young age, so it's not AGP for them either. However, the fact remains that the vast majority of transwomen (about 70%) are paraphilic, which is scary because these are the same people who are pushing to enter women's spaces and have access to children, and they retain male offending patterns. Additionally, there was a study recently that showed that transwomen are actually more likely to sexually offend than natal males who didn't transition.

Every medication has risks yet medicine goes on. It shouldn't be different for trans people.

But there are a growing number of people who are regretting transition and having to live with the negative side effects of transitioning. r/detrans, which is the only reliable source on detransition, has been seeing massive growth, and there are more and more people who are speaking out about how transitioning has ruined their lives.

Before you mention Jack Turban's USTS numbers on detransition, Turban's statistics are deeply flawed. The sample was transpeople at a gender clinic, and most detransitioners don't go to gender clinics anymore. Additionally, Turban set up the survey so that the same people could take it multiple times, which means the numbers aren't accurate. Turban is financially motivated to portray transitioning as "safe and effective", so he's not interested in seeking truth.

how is that indicative for trans teens anyway?

The fact remains that most teens who identify as trans will desist by the time they're adults and be happy with their natal sex. Getting teens on hormones will be detrimental to them because they will most likely end up with irreversible body changes they will later regret.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (68 children)

Just because Blanchard acknowledges that natal males who are aroused at the idea of themselves as women often transition doesn't mean he likes trans porn.

I never said anything about porn. Blanchard is a gay man whose absurd typology "happens" to categorize the trans women who would hypothetically be attracted to him as "good" and ones attracted to women as "AGP" and "fetishists". Ffs, let trans people have sexuality without accusing them of falling into a binary world of fetish or gay.

There is evidence to suggest that a small minority of bisexual transwomen and so-called "transbians" are dealing with autoandrophobia,

Obviously?? What trans woman wants to be a guy? That literally proves nothing.

I doubt your statistic about 70% being paraphilic or what paraphilic means in that case. If it just means not vanilla then it's just a way to slander us.

Additionally, there was a study recently that showed that transwomen are actually more likely to sexually offend than natal males who didn't transition.

I'd be interested in who exactly this studied because this seems absurd on its face to me.

r/detrans, which is the only reliable source on detransition, has been seeing massive growth, and there are more and more people who are speaking YouTube out YouTube about how transitioning has ruined their lives.

r/detrans is a cult. I have seen it myself. They accuse trans people of not accepting alternative views, but most trans spaces I've been in were fine with someone thinking about detransitioning. But to detrans, it is their way or no way, they cannot accept someone staying trans as a possibility, and they squash any dissent to that effect. All they told me was that me detransitioning was inevitable and that transition would not work for me. Well guess what, it is and has been working lol

The fact remains that most teens who identify as trans will desist by the time they're adults and be happy with their natal sex. Getting teens on hormones will be detrimental to them because they will most likely end up with irreversible body changes they will later regret

Then they will be no worse off than trans people who regret going through puberty. They deserve support and care, but I will always support trans people and so I would rather people transition even if they will regret it. You do not get to take away people's healthcare just because you regretted the path you took.

I'd support you or anyone in your detransition but your life is your own, your responsibility, you do not get to control others, and you will not control us.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (62 children)

In response to someone else pointing out that

most teens who identify as trans will desist by the time they're adults and be happy with their natal sex. Getting teens on hormones will be detrimental to them because they will most likely end up with irreversible body changes they will later regret

Your said:

Then they will be no worse off than trans people who regret going through puberty. They deserve support and care, but I will always support trans people and so I would rather people transition even if they will regret it.

Yes, it's true that males who only took testosterone blockers and exogenous estrogen and then cease might end up no worse off "than trans people who regret going through puberty" - or rather, who say they regret it. (BTW, I think it bears pointing out that the "trans people who regret going through puberty" are almost exclusively adult males who enjoy full sexual function, and many of whom have fathered children.) But that won't be true for the males who had their balls removed and their penises removed or reconfigured.

Swedish celebrity Alexa Lundberg and the YouTuber Shape Shifter both went through normal male puberty of adolescence before they tried to turn themselves into facsimiles of women, yet now both say they wished they had just accepted that they were gay males from the start rather than chasing an impossible fantasy.

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2020-05-12-aleksa-lundberg--%22i-am-a-gay-feminine-man-with-a-female-body%22.SyWGzCjDcU.html

If men like SS and Lundberg regret their decisions, then how can it be that males who will be deprived of the chance to go through male puberty of adolescence will be no worse off for it than all the adult males who after deciding to "become women" in adulthood say they wish they could have skipped male puberty? (Also, for the record: whilst post-transition males who say they wish they hadn't gone through puberty typically do so because they think this would've made them them more "passable" as the opposite sex, I highly doubt that the majority of them would have passed up their chance to experience male libido, male sexual arousal and male orgasm in the off-chance it might make them "pass" better now.)

But that's the males. Pray tell, how will the young females you are wishing this horrible fate on end up "no worse off than" the males you speak of who now say they regret going through male puberty?

Also, why do you think mature adults like Laverne Cox, Rachel Levine, Grace Lavery, Julia Serrano, Andrea Long Chu, Caitlyn Jenner, Contrapoints, Char Clymer, Jennifer Finney Boylan, Marci Bowers, TS Madison, etc are good comparators for today's distressed tween and teenage girls? Why are they the models on which to base standards of medical care for young girls with sex and gender distress?

Why should what full-grown males say about their own time as youths way back when be the deciding factor in determining which medical treatments are given to today's and tomorrow's tween and teenage girls, some as young as 8?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (61 children)

(BTW, I think it bears pointing out that the "trans people who regret going through puberty" are almost exclusively adult males who enjoy full sexual function, and many of whom have fathered children.) But that won't be true for the males who had their balls removed and their penises removed or reconfigured.

There are way more young mtf people, me included, who regret going through puberty, than there are of late transitioners with families.

Even if they've had surgery they could still take testosterone while detransitioning if that is what they want.

Swedish celebrity Alexa Lundberg and the YouTuber Shape Shifter both went through normal male puberty of adolescence before they tried to turn themselves into facsimiles of women, yet now both say they wished they had just accepted that they were gay males from the start rather than chasing an impossible fantasy.

Cool? That sucks for them, it really does, but it has literally no impact on my life or the lives of other trans people. People's personal testimonies of the journey their gender identity has taken cannot be used to make a group judgment to deny us the right to transition.

I highly doubt that the majority of them would have passed up their chance to experience male libido, male sexual arousal and male orgasm in the off-chance it might make them "pass" better now.

I never wanted any of that nor do many of the people I know. And even if I did, it shouldn't stop someone from being able to transition.

But that's the males. Pray tell, how will the young females you are wishing this horrible fate on end up "no worse off than" the males you speak of who now say they regret going through male puberty?

Being trans is not a horrible fate. It is difficult, but if you look around there is a supportive community going through a lot of the same things, and that helps us get through it.

Being detrans isn't a horrible fate either, though it seems mostly like being "ex-gay" to me for some, a constant state of denying yourself what you want. I don't think that's healthy imo, but it's not my life to live.

Also, why do you think mature adults like Laverne Cox, Rachel Levine, Grace Lavery, Julia Serrano, Andrea Long Chu, Caitlyn Jenner, Contrapoints, Char Clymer, Jennifer Finney Boylan, Marci Bowers, TS Madison, etc are good comparators for today's distressed tween and teenage girls? Why are they the models on which to base standards of medical care for young girls with sex and gender distress?

Honestly the only people from this list who a young person probably knows might be Laverne Cox and contra. Add on Hunter Schafer. Do I have to like famous trans people to be trans? No lol, we could use more young trans role models like Hunter, but it takes time.

Why should what full-grown males say about their own time as youths way back when be the deciding factor in determining which medical treatments are given to today's and tomorrow's tween and teenage girls, some as young as 8?

Trans people are entitled to medical treatments to help us transition if we want them. It isn't about what anyone else wants.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (60 children)

Being trans is not a horrible fate.

But I never said "being trans" (whatever that means) is a horrible fate. I said female persons whose health has been permanently damaged by regular administration of exogenous testosterone/androgens for the purpose of masculinizing them during their tweens, teens and 20s have faced, and do face, a horrible fate.

Female persons doped on T over the course of many years for the purpose of masculinization routinely experience physical problems like vaginal atrophy, cystitis, extreme pelvic pain, including upon/after orgasm, and a host of other serious gynecological issues leading to major surgeries like hysterectomy and oophorectomy that will put them at risk for other health problems like vaginal and pelvic organ prolapse and early-onset dementia. As adults, female persons on long-term exogenous T for masculinization have double the risk of heart attacks and CV disease as ordinary male adults do.

The medical interventions you recommend - indeed insist upon - for young female persons will cause them to go from having half the risk of heart attack and CV diseases as males to having twice the risk of males. Moreover, whereas females who develop CV disease usually begin to develop it 7-10 years later than males, women heavily dosed with testosterone in their formative years appear to develop CV disease earlier than males. If the women doped on androgens during their formative and athletic years by the East German government are any indication, taking over many years during adolescence and adulthood significantly reduces female life spans.

The core question I asked you earlier that you have refused to answer is: Why are adult trans activists like you so intent on issuing diktats saying other people's minor children should be given powerful prescription drugs and artificial hormones that will impede their natural development and impair their sexual function?

Why do you and other males think you have sufficient insight and expertise on the health of female children, adolescents and adults to decide and insist that during their tweens and teens, large numbers of girls should be put on exogenous Big Pharma testosterone?

Do you make posts dictating what medical treatments other groups of youngsters - particularly girls - should get? Or just girls who are distressed about gender and sex issues - girls who if allowed to develop naturally and with proper mental health support might grow up to be strong "GNC" women unwilling to take shit from males - no matter how the males say they identify?

Hmm, what's up with that?

I'll wait.

Honestly the only people from this list who a young person probably knows might be Laverne Cox and contra. Add on Hunter Schafer. Do I have to like famous trans people to be trans? No lol, we could use more young trans role models like Hunter, but it takes time.

Huh? I never suggested the persons I named were models for the tween and teenage girls and young women who want to "transition" today. I mentioned nothing about role models. I don't know how you could have come to such an odd conclusion.

I said that the statements made by male persons like the ones I named are what led to the notion that it would be a good idea to stop the natural development of children for the purpose of "early medical transition" in the first place. When adult males like the ones I named - and the additional ones you yourself have now mentioned - look back on their own teenage years, they frequently say that they wish they hadn't developed male secondary sex characteristics during their own puberties of adolescence because having obviously male sex characteristics make it harder for them to "pass" as women. And it's because of what such adult males say about their own lives in retrospect - and out of their own mirror-gazing, appearance-obsessed, very narrow self-interests - that large numbers of young children they have never met, never will meet, have nothing to do with and know jack shit about, are being subjected to radical experimental medical interventions to stop them from going through puberty.

I didn't mention the adult males I named because they are "famous trans people" who might have direct influence on youngsters because they are work in entertainment like Cox does, make YT videos like CP does, or they work as fashion models like Hunter Shafer does. I mentioned the individuals I did because the ideas that inform and govern "pediatric gender medicine" are based entirely on the experience of such males, and only on their experience as males. Moreover, the individuals I named all have enormous influence on the people who make health care policy and decide the standards of care for children and adolescents experiencing distress over sex and gender issues. All of the people I mentioned have the ears of the people high up in medicine, psychotherapy, politics, government, "LGBTQ" lobbying, publishing and the mainstream media, social media, the insurance industry, etc who make policy and decide what treatments are appropriate for children.

In fact, some of the people I mentioned - Rachel Levine, Marci Bowers - actually set the standards of medical treatment and determine health policy themselves. In case you were unaware of this, Rachel Levine is the Biden administration official personally in charge of women's and children's medical treatment and health care policy in the USA. Marci Bowers is president-elect of WPATH, and a longtime member of the groups that control WPATH at the highest levels, including the board of directors. Over the years, Bowers has also been an outspoken, leading advocate of subjecting male children to surgical castration and penile reconfiguration whilst they are still minors. And not just when they are still minors, but when they are minors still living under their parents' roofs and under their parents' thumbs. (Bowers says a main reason for this is so that the mothers can force recently-castrated youths to dilate after surgery when they don't want to.) Until recently, Bowers was also one of the biggest proponents of "pubertal blockade" of male children at Tanner Stage 2.

All the leading lights and influential figures in the gender identity industry like Norman Spack, Jack Turban and Diane Ehrenshraft; orgs like WPATH, APA and Mermaids; clinicians, psychotherapists policy makers, insurers, parents and everyone else captured by today's gender identity ideology say it's a good idea to follow the advice of the kinds of adult males I have mentioned in determining how best to treat young boys and girls who are distressed over sex and gender issue. All of them and the other powers-that-be in "pediatric gender medicine" and "youth gender care" say it's essential to make sure that gender confused kids are subjected to radical medical interventions as early in childhood as possible. Meaning before the first physical signs of puberty of adolescence become obvious - which according to the protocols now in use in the US, means putting female children on "puberty blockers" AND exogenous testosterone as early as 8, and putting males on "blockers" at 10-11 and on exogenous estrogen by 12. (Jazz Jennings went on "blockers" at 11, and exogenous estrogen at 11 years, 5 months.)

These experimental radical medical interventions are being done on young children on the say so and at the urging of adult males like the ones I named - and like the younger adult ones you yourself mentioned. All of whom had the privilege of growing up without their brains, bones and endocrine systems being irreversibly altered and without developing the kinds of iatrogenic physical and mental health problems that Jazz Jennings now has. All of whom also have had the chance to develop normal male reproductive capacity and to experience the enormous and exquisite pleasures that come from having mature male sexual function, male libido, male sexual pleasure, and male orgasms.

Trans people are entitled to medical treatments to help us transition if we want them. It isn't about what anyone else wants.

If that's the case, why are you and other adults like you so insistent on dictating the medical interventions done on minors? Minors who are other people's children. Minors who are mostly children of the sex you seem to know very little about, and you have no experience of?

If that's the case, why are you on social media making statements like this one:

we should be giving teens cross-sex hormones instead, the same way we would for adults. They can desist or detransition later.

Again, why is it so important to you and other adults like you to insure that other people's minor children get robbed of the chance to grow up physically healthy with fully developed brains and bodies, and with the capacity to enjoy full sexual function?

Why are you and other adults like you so intent on making sure that cross-sex hormones are used to alter the bodies and mess with the minds of tween and teenage girls in particular?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (59 children)

I said female persons whose health has been permanently damaged by regular administration of exogenous testosterone/androgens for the purpose of masculinizing them during their tweens, teens and 20s have faced, and do face, a horrible fate.

You realize there are many precautions that can be taken that can help transmasc people with this? A lot of trans guys I know take topical estradiol to prevent vaginal atrophy, it's unfortunate but helps, and have also had hysterectomies to head off potential issues there as well.

pelvic organ prolapse and early-onset dementia. As adults, female persons on long-term exogenous T for masculinization have double the risk of heart attacks and CV disease as ordinary male adults do.

I don't think any of this is worth not transitioning, personally. It's up to them and they should be aware, but we will figure out ways to deal with these issues. There are other risky actions people take that increase their CV risk, like eating badly, but we don't stop people from eating how they want, obviously.

Why are adult trans activists like you so intent on issuing diktats saying other people's minor children should be given powerful prescription drugs and artificial hormones that will impede their natural development and impair their sexual function?

Because if they're trans it's their right to take them, it's that simple. And estradiol for trans women is bioidentical now in the vast majority of cases. It's exogenously introduced, but it's the exact same hormone as is produced naturally.

large numbers of young children they have never met, never will meet, have nothing to do with and know jack shit about, are being subjected to radical experimental medical interventions to stop them from going through puberty.

If even one kid is like me and hates her body less because she was able to transition younger and not have horrible parents then it will have been worth it.

All of the people I mentioned have the ears of the people high up in medicine, psychotherapy, politics, government, "LGBTQ" lobbying, publishing and the mainstream media, social media, the insurance industry, etc who make policy and decide what treatments are appropriate for children.

Trans people finally having a say for ourselves and helping trans kids, and that's somehow problematic to you. Would you rather trans people have no voice and cis people decide for us? No lol

Over the years, Bowers has also been an outspoken, leading advocate of subjecting male children to surgical castration and penile reconfiguration whilst they are still minors.

Okay? I can see how that's logical, it would be much easier to recover from SRS with parental support.

All of whom also have had the chance to develop normal male reproductive capacity and to experience the enormous and exquisite pleasures that come from having mature male sexual function, male libido, male sexual pleasure, and male orgasms.

Okay what actually is this? Why write this? I hated anything sexual before I transitioned and I still have intimacy issues because I'm so uncomfortable with my body. There is no "exquisite" pleasure in being male nor does that at all motivate me to have others have to suffer the way I did/do. I would have done anything to avoid that grossness.

gender identity ideology say it's a good idea to follow the advice of the kinds of adult males I have mentioned in determining how best to treat young boys and girls who are distressed over sex and gender issue.

Literally the only advice you have to follow is to treat ppl with dysphoria and give them transition care.

Again, why is it so important to you and other adults like you to insure that other people's minor children get robbed of the chance to grow up physically healthy with fully developed brains and bodies, and with the capacity to enjoy full sexual function?

People do not necessarily need or desire "full sexual function". I didn't. Why are you so intent on making trans kids suffer so that people can grow up wanting sex? Ofc hormones alter people's bodies and minds but that is not a negative thing, it's someone's choice.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (48 children)

People do not necessarily need or desire "full sexual function". I didn't. Why are you so intent on making trans kids suffer so that people can grow up wanting sex? Ofc hormones alter people's bodies and minds but that is not a negative thing, it's someone's choice.

Yikes. This is straight up the kind of thinking that Money and Mengele engaged in. It's the kind of thinking used in the past to justify the sterilization and lobotomization of people with physical and mental disabilities and other traits deemed "undesirable" in the eyes of eugenists. It's the kind of thinking that's used to justify FGM and forced hysterectomies.

What you want to see done across the board to minors too young to have agency constitute profound violations of their fundamental human rights.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

Lobotomies and other barbaric surgeries were and are performed on people without their consent. Neither HRT nor gender-affirming surgery is so drastic, and importantly, it is desired by the patient.

Just because someone is a child, doesn't mean they have no medical agency. Kids can't decide everything but they should get a say in their own healthcare.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (44 children)

I forgot to ask this earlier: If you really believe that most trans adults agree with you that

People do not necessarily need or desire "full sexual function"

And you truly are convinced that the children subjected to "gender affirming" medical interventions that will leave without sexual function will grow up to have no regrets about it -

Then how do you account for the fact that thousands of adults in countries such as Sweden, Germany and Japan have sued and obtained compensation for being required to give up their capacity to reproduce as part of their own gender transitions that they underwent as adults?

How do you account for the fact that the one thing most "trans men" get in the news for is for having babies? If sexual function wasn't important to them, how come so many trans men are hell-bent on reproducing? How do you account for the fact that a great number of young "trans women" today say they want biological children too, and many prominent ones like Gigi Gorgeous and Blaire White have openly expressed regret and grief that they did not bank sperm before they started taking T suppressants and messing with their endocrine systems?

How do you respond to the fact that many people who have no interest in having children ever when they are in their teens and 20s find that in their 30s they feel totally differently?

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And some people want their perfectly healthy limbs cut off. Does this mean surgeons should affirm "transable" people, too? Should anorexic patients be refered for liposuctions, too?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I’m concerned about how often you take these points about other people and deny them because it’s not applicable to you.

Like, your sex hang ups have nothing to do with the fact that children given puberty blockers like jazz Jennings will become adults who have extreme sexual dysfunctions.

You don’t care about the side effects of testosterone on girls so we should all dismiss them as acceptable.

Can you remove your own desires from a discussion about other people, and remember that other people can and will want things you are fine without?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I'm not the one who's trying to restrict what people can do. If people want something else for themselves that's fine. Trans kids deserve a choice, not to be forced to go through natal puberty. That choice is independent of any potential side effects.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Is there a reason you’re not answering this question? You went off on an absolute tangent without any actual response.

Let me ask you again, are you capable of separating your emotions and wants from other children?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Blanchard is a gay man whose absurd typology "happens" to categorize the trans women who would hypothetically be attracted to him as "good" and ones attracted to women as "AGP" and "fetishists".

Blanchard never said that HSTS is better than AGP -- he's said repeatedly that both are "valid" forms of transsexualism. I disagree with him on that because I believe there is no trans -- just internalized homophobia/misogyny, paraphilia, trauma, and mental illness -- but Blanchard has actively supported AGPs transitioning.

Ffs, let trans people have sexuality without accusing them of falling into a binary world of fetish or gay.

When you base your sexuality around violating women's boundaries, eroding women's and LGB rights, and harming children, that's problematic and a sign that you have a severe porn or sex addiction and should seek help for that addiction.

Obviously?? What trans woman wants to be a guy? That literally proves nothing.

Autoandrophobia is rooted in trauma from being abused by males at a young age. It doesn't make you a woman.

If it just means not vanilla then it's just a way to slander us.

Fetishes that are not "vanilla" are actually pretty dangerous, and AGP is anything but vanilla. It's voyeuristic, paraphilic, and allows AGPs to publicly display their sexual fetishes in front of children and in women's safe spaces.

r/detrans is a cult. I have seen it myself. They accuse trans people of not accepting alternative views, but most trans spaces I've been in were fine with someone thinking about detransitioning. But to detrans, it is their way or no way, they cannot accept someone staying trans as a possibility, and they squash any dissent to that effect.

Trans spaces state that transition is the only way, regularly say toxic things like "that's not very c*s of you" and "if you think you might be trans you are", and actively try to prevent people from detransitioning. If that's not a cult, I don't know what is. Detransitioners hold some resentment towards the trans community for this behavior and for pushing them into a pit of confusion, depression, and medicalization so that a few transpeople who aren't sure in their identities can feel validated. Additionally, there are actually several non-binary detransitioners who use r/detrans. Non-binary is trans, and I've never seen a non-binary person on r/detrans be accosted for being non-binary, so your point about r/detrans squashing trans positive content is false.

I would rather people transition even if they will regret it.

You don't understand what it's like to transition and regret it. You have no idea how painful it is for a male detransitioner to feel like an emasculated soyboy because he transitioned. You have no idea how painful it is for a female detransitioner to have to receive nasty stares and feel undesirable because she has facial hair, a deep voice, and a flat chest. Additionally, you have no idea how painful it is to be experiencing the longterm side effects of cross-sex hormones and surgery, such as autoimmune disorders, osteoporosis, heart disease, and brain tumors, because you made a mistake. The detrans wave is starting, and more and more people are realizing that lifelong medicalization for a sense of identity isn't worth it.

In that comment, you have made it clear that your loyalty is towards the trans ideology and that you believe the trans community is so important that any harm it causes should be minimized.

I'd support you or anyone in your detransition but your life is your own, your responsibility, you do not get to control others, and you will not control us.

I'm not asking to control you -- I'm asking that you stop controlling us. Stop invading women's spaces and telling women to let their guard down. Stop invading LGB spaces and telling us that same-sex attraction is bigoted. Stop erasing women's rights because they don't include the male sex. Stop pushing people to transition as your rationale for your own transition. r/detrans and most GC movements have so little power that we can't possibly be controlling the trans community. The only chances we get to make ourselves heard are a few free-speech sites and news articles, while most tech companies and news outlets always side with the trans community and actively suppress trans-critical voices. We don't have corporations washing everything in lizards and suffragette colors for us for an entire month or schools teaching kids about detransition and radical feminism, while you've been given a month to paint the world pink, white, and baby blue and free reign over school curricula to push confusing, misogynistic, homophobic, predatory, and downright harmful ideas.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Blanchard never said that HSTS is better than AGP -- he's said repeatedly that both are "valid" forms of transsexualism

That's because he is covering himself. The same way he came up with AAP as a counterpart despite not having much evidence for it.

I disagree with him on that because I believe there is no trans

Then you are transphobic and there is basically no point in me discussing this with you tbh. I'm trans, you can't change that.

When you base your sexuality around violating women's boundaries, eroding women's and LGB rights, and harming children, that's problematic and a sign that you have a severe porn or sex addiction and should seek help for that addiction.

Being trans has literally nothing to do with any of these things.

I know you don't actually care, but I've spent literally years in spaces like this trying to find compromises for my existence. I don't just take things without asking and I try to be aware of how I seem in public. The last thing I ever want is to make anybody afraid. I'm literally anxious just to be friends with cis women, because I can never know what they would think if I told them.

I support transition care for teens because I believe it is the right thing to do, it is what I would have wanted at that age, and because I am tired of kids being treated as parental property. That isn't harming children.

So how is my sexuality based on any of that?

Autoandrophobia is rooted in trauma from being abused by males at a young age. It doesn't make you a woman.

I'm a woman because other people think I am female, and that's what I've wanted from a young age. If abuse made me trans, then transness is my way of healing from it.

Fetishes that are not "vanilla" are actually pretty dangerous, and AGP is anything but vanilla. It's voyeuristic, paraphilic, and allows AGPs to publicly display their sexual fetishes in front of children and in women's safe spaces.

Then teach people to control themselves in public? I don't think being AGP is problematic, just someone's actions. The same way I feel about BDSM.

Trans spaces state that transition is the only way, regularly say toxic things like "that's not very c*s of you" and "if you think you might be trans you are", and actively try to prevent people from detransitioning

This has never been my experience, my friend group had someone consider detransitioning and we're still friends with her.

Detransitioners say things like "transition will never make you happy" or "hrt is poison". They do not support bodily autonomy.

so your point about r/detrans squashing trans positive content is false.

I used to be in the detrans server and it was explicitly disallowed to talk positively about HRT in any way and when I was questioning, I was only ever told by them to detransition. So lol. Get real.

You don't understand what it's like to transition and regret it. You have no idea how painful it is for a male detransitioner to feel like an emasculated soyboy because he transitioned.

It sucks, or do you think I don't hate my body every single day? Welcome to the club just in the other direction. I don't understand what it's like to transition and regret, but I regret even being born because I'm amab. We should be in this together, dysphoric people as one, but we're not.

The detrans wave is starting, and more and more people are realizing that lifelong medicalization for a sense of identity isn't worth it.

Then do what you want with your own lives? And fuck out of mine. It's worth it to me and many others and that's our choice.

I'm not asking to control you -- I'm asking that you stop controlling us. Stop invading women's spaces and telling women to let their guard down.

For years I've avoided public bathrooms because I didn't want to get clocked by anyone even though that hasn't happened in years. You know who dragged me in? Cis women friends of mine. Yeah it's important to not barge in without anything thought but ultimately, I live life as a woman, the only people who think otherwise are on the Internet, so I'm going to use spaces where it's clear I'm allowed or where I can be stealth.

Stop invading LGB spaces and telling us that same-sex attraction is bigoted.

Many trans people are also LGB. And I DO tell off people who pressure others into dating them. However I do think it's transphobic if someone is both attracted to a trans person AND won't date them because they're trans. People need to clarify that.

Also lol, GC doesn't have any control? Your queen's tweet manifesto has been cited in laws restricting trans healthcare in the United States, Keira Bell's case basically stopped new prescriptions from tavistock until it was appealed. A trans woman in Texas was assaulted because of all the rhetoric that trans people are inherently unsafe, inherently dangerous, groomers, etc. You have had a part in that.

Maybe you would be heard more and would get less pushback if you weren't actually trying to stop people from transitioning. Like do you know what lizards being painted on walls by corporations would mean for me? It would mean I'm either dead or can't access HRT anymore, and I will gladly fight against that.

You've said you don't believe in trans. How can I take that except as a direct threat to my way of being and living? I believe in detransitioners, but I will not let you or anyone take that away, sorry.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I support transition care for teens because I believe it is the right thing to do, it is what I would have wanted at that age, and because I am tired of kids being treated as parental property. That isn't harming children.

This is worth breaking down into its component parts.

I support transition care for teens because I believe it is the right thing to do,

Why is it the right thing to do? Please list reasons.

I support transition care for teens because it is what I would have wanted at that age

Yet when I say that this is is the case for you and other adult males who have "transitioned," you take umbrage.

I support transition care for teens because I am tired of kids being treated as parental property.

I agree that children and teens are not the property of their parents, and shouldn't be treated as such. But it seems to me that many of the parents who have "transitioned" their children have treated their kids as their property. And also as their pet "projects," show ponies, cash cows, claims to fame, pawns in their own psychodramas, props used to get themselves attention and applause, and mouthpieces. Seems to me children and youngsters like Kai Shappley and Jazz Jennings have been used, exploited, manipulated and controlled by their parents just much as Edgar Bergen once did to Charlie McCarthy.

But again, why do you think you personally know best about the medical interventions other people's children should receive? Why are you qualified to dictate what happens to other people's kids? Do you have any expertise or experience at all in child and adolescent development? How many children have you raised or had a hand in raising? Have you ever done any childcare? Been a Big Brother or Big Sister? A tutor? A mentor? Had a regular babysitting gig?

There are many adults with all sorts of psychiatric, health and social problems that younger generations of kids today are grappling with. But I don't know of any other situation where adults who experienced a particular problem in their own childhoods and adolescence are trying to dictate the medical treatments that kids with the same problem today are getting.

That isn't harming children.

Several posters have gone into detail about some of the many physical harms that have been done to children by giving them the kinds of medical interventions you advocate they receive. Yet you still blithely make such assertions.

There's a 15-16 year old girl in Sweden who identifies (or did) as trans featured in the Trans Train documentary Part 4 who is in constant pain and has trouble standing, walking and just getting through each day because the "puberty blockers" she was put on at 11 caused her to suffer multiple spine fractures, disc disintegration and bone deformity. Moreover, stunting her skeletal development means she hasn't grown in height since she was 11. So at barely 5' tall, she's going to go through life even shorter than she would have been without the blockers. But she appears even shorter than that because she can't straighten her spine when on her feet. Tell me, how will these physical features help her "pass" as a man better?

Apparently, there are at least 15 other girls in Sweden treated by the Karolinska Institute in similar straits. There's also a girl in Australia who is in a wheelchair because as a result of the "puberty blockers," the major bones in her legs break when she tries to stand on them.

The Karolinska ended up having to report itself to Swedish medical authorities and to prosecutors for the harms its medical doctors have done to girls in the name of "gender affirming medical treatment." Yet ideologues like you continue to claim that the kind of experimental treatments you advocate for and insist on

isn't harming children.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Why is it the right thing to do? Please list reasons.

Because trans people are human beings with agency who deserve to make our own decisions on what hormones we're running on. No less and no more.

But it seems to me that many of the parents who have "transitioned" their children have treated their kids as their property. And also as their pet "projects," show ponies, cash cows, claims to fame, pawns in their own psychodramas, props used to get themselves attention and applause, and mouthpieces. Seems to me children and youngsters like Kai Shappley and Jazz Jennings have been used, exploited, manipulated and controlled by their parents just much as Edgar Bergen once did to Charlie McCarthy.

Then those particular parents are bad. Doesn't mean trans kids don't exist. I've felt this way since I was 6 and I am no contact with my family because they are transphobic asf. For every supposed parent like that there are three more transphobic, homophobic parents like mine.

But again, why do you think you personally know best about the medical interventions other people's children should receive?

It's not up to me, it's up to them. They should get the medical interventions they want and ask for. I don't get what part of that you don't understand.

Tell me, how will these physical features help him "pass" as a man better?

Short men exist you know. And blockers aren't cross-sex hormones, you know that. But I will not engage in talking about someone unless you use their pronouns.

Yet ideologues like you continue to claim that the kind of experimental treatments you advocate for and insist on isn't harming children

It's not. Blockers having side effects is unfortunate but that is a problem with those particular medications not the concept of pausing puberty.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Huh? My post that you are responding to was about this specific statement of yours, which I quoted and offset so that it would be clear to all exactly what I was referring to:

I support transition care for teens because I believe it is the right thing to do, it is what I would have wanted at that age, and because I am tired of kids being treated as parental property. That isn't harming children.

When I asked you to spell out why exactly "transition care for teens, kids" and children is "the right thing to do," you've come back with

Because trans people are human beings with agency who deserve to make our own decisions on what hormones we're running on. No less and no more.

The comment you made earlier I was inquiring into was specifically about teens, kids and children - not "trans people." But your response is about full-grown adults with "agency" like you. In fact, you switch speaking of other people's minor children to speaking solely about yourself and other adults like you. Me me me, we we we...

trans people are human beings with agency who deserve to make our own decisions on what hormones we're running on.

Talk about changing the topic and switching the goal posts!

Nowhere on this thread - or I believe on any other - have I ever said that full-grown adults with fully-developed brains and cognitive abilities like you should not be able to make your own decisions about your own health care and your own life.

Throughout this entire thread the concerns and questions about medical interventions that I have raised have not been about the course of action you choose for your own body, or what other adults decide to do with their bodies. The concerns and questions I've raised are about the treatments you insist must be done across the board to other people - and to other people when they are still small children, tweens, teens and young adults undergoing crucial stages of development.

I have asked you time and again why you believe you and other adults like you know best which medical interventions ALL small children, tweens and teens with gender and sex issues should be subjected to - and why in particular you think you know best about how sex-and -gender distressed female youngsters should be treated. And I'll gotten back is responses that indicate you know nothing whatsoever of child development and do not give a shit about the longterm health and wellbeing of the children whose bodies you insist must be altered. Such as this inhumane, ignorant doozy:

Blockers having side effects is unfortunate but that is a problem with those particular medications not the concept of pausing puberty.

I bet your only knowledge about children comes from having been a child once yourself. I'd lay down good money that you've never even done any baby sitting or changed a diaper.