GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed?

submitted by SnowAssMan from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

Have you done it? Have you changed your markers on your ID?

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

In the county that I'm in right now it costs about 2K bucks to get gender legally changed & this law hasn't been updated for decades. It certainly isn't as woke of a country that the majority of English-speaking countries are. I plan to move to the UK at some point, at which point I will most certainly be changing my gender legally. It's the only legal way to "boycott" gender identity laws, by giving them a taste of their own medicine. I asked on here if me doing so would be good or bad for feminism, the response was a unanimous: good for feminism.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Given the responses you have been given in this thread, I doubt the answer was an unanimous "good for feminism".

I seriously doubt this is going to change a thing, you will just be another who will take advantage of whatever benefit this might bring and swiftly change back when this is not beneficial or funny anymore.

Recognizing the danger of loopholes isn' t going to stop assholes from doing what they want, and the government isn' t going to change just because some people do what you are suggesting: they will just file this under "some transphobes are ruining the legitimate trans community" and nothing will change. This if they even acknowledge that it is happening.

Masses doing it will just result in these people claiming that "more acceptance" drove more people to do finally come out and live their authentic selves.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Given the responses you have been given in this thread, I doubt the answer was an unanimous "good for feminism".

Just check my post history if you don't believe me. Literally the same users who expressed having no problem with me identifying as transgender, are now pulling out every excuse when I ask why they don't do it too. They've done a 180.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I did check, the question you asked there was different compared to the one you are asking here. There, you were talking about men, here you are talking about women, and you' re being condescending about it, not to mention you are not accepting as answers two of the biggest reasons why we do not like the thought of changing markers.

But to analyze those answers you got: out of the those three responses, one was "go for it" (and she changed her mind once you changed the question because, as she and others have explained, women and feminists putting in motion your plan are not going to get the same benefits men who identify as women get and they aren' t exactly listened to in the first place), another said that it might do something if lots of GC men did it, and the third said that it wasn' t necessary because actual trans people are already doing a good job at ridiculing themselves.

Now, first of all, as I said, you are asking two different questions, so the fact that one poster is ok with what you asked back then and thinks what you' re asking now is ridicoulous is perfectly reasonable. Second, when someone says "I have had unanimous support" in the way you have done when you replied earlier, the implication is that it' s a huge number of people, not freaking three. When three people answer to your question it means that everyone else doesn' t think it' s worth engaging in the idea, let alone putting it in motion. And third, out of those three, it wasn' t even unanimous because at least one of them wasn' t having an opinion on your plan.

Literally the same users who expressed having no problem with me identifying as transgender, are now pulling out every excuse when I ask why they don't do it too.

Yeah, a user is fine with you doing something like this and is not fine with doing it herself. I am not really sure why you find this so weird: I am fine if my best friend eats oysters, but I wouldn' t touch those things with a ten foot pole. 🤷‍♀️

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Three, three three" – if the "go for it" reply gets 10 insightful points, then that's more than three. When it comes to replies that most GC people that frequent this forum up-vote, 10 is as high a number as you can expect. Nice gas-lighting attempt though.

Your first reply here was: "Have you done it? Have you changed your markers on your ID?" Basically trying to expose my supposed hypocrisy. But now you're suggesting that it's irrelevant whether I do it or not, since I'm not female. I'm okay with women doing it & you guys are okay with men doing it. Either both sides are hypocrites, or neither side is. So which is it? Either way you've got to back-pedal.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if the "go for it" reply gets 10 insightful points, then that's more than three.

Yeah, it' s 11, which is still a ridicoulous number to imply that you had huge support, and it still doesn' t change the fact that unanimous means "complete", and you didn' t have it and that the "support" you received on that thread was for something different than what you are talking about here.

Nice gas-lighting attempt though.

LOL, ok. I am totally gaslighting you by pointing out that a very small number of people agreeing to a question and then disagreeing to a different question is a perfectly legitimate position to have.

On the other hand, you 1) asked two different questions and pretended that the answer you received were to the same question, 2) said you had unanimous support when 1/3 of the people who answered actually didn' t show support, 3) talked as if 12 people were proof that you have huge support.

But I am the one who' s lying and "gaslighting"... 🙄

But now you're suggesting that it's irrelevant whether I do it or not, since I'm not female.

I didn' t know you were a man, and I don' t really care. The result of you setting in motion your "brilliant" plan is the same, and that is that it' s not going to bring any changes. If you' re a woman doing it, it won' t amount to anything because you won' t be listened to and you won' t get many benefits. If you' re a man doing it, you will just be another dude who "identifies" as a woman. Doing it to troll won' t change the fact that you will behave in the same way as all the other men who identify as women, you will just use "BUT I AM DOING IT FOR YOUR SAKE!" as an excuse.

I'm okay with women doing it & you guys are okay with men doing it. Either both sides are hypocrites, or neither side is. So which is it?

I don' t see why that is the case. Posters in this thread have already explained to you why they think your idea is ridioulous and they won' t participate, the fact that you don' t like those answers means absolutely nothing. Those are the answers, you can whine about it all you want, it' s not going to change a thing.

Either way you've got to back-pedal.

I don' t see why I should do that and I won' t. My position on this is "Do what you want since you will do it anyway, but I find the idea stupid and I don' t think it will amount to anything". There' s nothing hypocritical in it and considering that the vibe I got from those "unanimous support" comments you received were that the women in that thread thought "Meh, whatever, if it works great, otherwise things won' t change much from now." and not the "OMG, YOU' RE SO BRILLIANT! YOU' RE GOING TO SAVE FEMINISM AND WOMEN!!!!!!!!" you seem to read into their words, I don' t think there' s anything hypocritical in them either.

[–]one1won 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hold the phone! I’m not going back on hypothesizing that a critical mass of GC men may be capable of cracking the identity movement. So there’s no “180” here. I am NOT a man. (Man meaning adult human male. ie sexed)

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Let me guess, your boycot will involve going into the women's restroom, right? But "only" to make a point, right?

I asked on here if me doing so would be good or bad for feminism, the response was a unanimous: good for feminism.

You never explained what exactly you wanted to do, and you got only 3 replies, anyway.

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/8qwr/gc_should_gc_men_identify_as_transgender_to/

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

only 3 replies? That's like 50% of the users here lol

boycotts are only effective if enough people do it. Individual use can help you avoid arrest for "transphobia" or avoid getting banned for "transphobia", but it can also help you identity-politics your way out of any debate, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f0MfGqQXH4&list=PLpHJ9aQruxVc_QfalD5sDoKyPo6tVG8fW&index=33 you might form a few cracks on the way. Why not use their own ideology against them? Why not use their own tactics against them?

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I know there are only a few active users here, but it's misleading when you claim to have unanimous support when only 3 people replied you and more so because you didn't explain you planned to get your sex "legally changed". Even now, you are not explaining what you plan to do after that. You're a man and you say you're living in a country that is not that captured by transgenderism, so what would you get out of this?

Do you even understand we're not spies? Do you understand that nobody really believes TWAW and, therefore, everyone will recognize us as women? Do you understand TRAs turn against their own all the time for not being idelogically pure enough?

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

As I explained to another user, one of the replies got 10 up votes, so you & I both know I'm not over-estimating the results.

My previous reply already answered your question as to the value of me doing it.

I've drawn many comparisons, not just the spy example, to illustrate just how effective a strategy this is.

Straight people who don't even have GD are the most ideologically pure. It'd be great to overwhelm them by sheer numbers alone, but just a substantial number of free radicals would cause an upset. It's just important to go around calling anyone & everyone within the community "transphobic", without given them a chance to call you it. Once inside, you'd have no need to stand on a soap box, just reprimand anyone else who does for their transphobia (which should be easy bc they are constantly contradicting themselves). It'll disillusion gender identity allies the most.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

10 is not much better than 3. And Sloane's comment about there being already enough males who identfying as trans exposing the truth unintentionally got 11 likes. So, where is the unanimous support you are talking about? I remember when I saw your other thread months ago I though saying no because of the high probability of men acting like jerks under the excuse of "making a point". But I decided saying nothing because it would likely started another argument with you complaining I had something against you. But, really, you've proved me right, Snow.

Anyway, let's not forget you asked a very different question in the other thread. You never specified what exactly you meant by "identifyng" as trans. Even now, it's not clear what you plan to do once you got your documents changed. Do you know what this reminds me about? TRA making polls about public support for "trans rights" without specifying what those "rights" entail, so the can later claim the public supports the elimination of any women's space for instance. So, are you planning to all the TRA's tactics from now on?

Honestly, I'm not sure either what exactly you expect we do. You jump from saying we should do to "win" arguments (which would not require any paperwork) to pretending to be men online (which would not require paperwork either) to do infiltration work (which doesn't sound wise if you don't have the training or the resources to pull this off). At this point I can only think you have to be trolling us, Snow.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Those 11 likes are unlikely to be an additional 11 people, right? 10 of those 11 likely overlap with the other reply. As a former mod you should know that it's highly unlikely that the post we are talking about received the engagement of over 20 individuals. Please stop assuming I'm too stupid to see through these gas-lighting attempts.

Your entire reply is opposing my previous question on here, instead of the current one.

Just ask yourself: how did a supposed troll end up being more well-read on feminism than you?

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those 11 likes are unlikely to be an additional 11 people, right? 10 of those 11 likely overlap with the other reply. As a former mod you should know that it's highly unlikely that the post we are talking about received the engagement of over 20 individuals.

Those 2 comments are different enough that is not unlikely they've not been upvoted by the same people. At the very, as you cannot know who upvoted what, you cannot be sure that your idea had unanimous support. And, let's not forget you never specified what exactly you meant by "identfying as transgender".

Please stop assuming I'm too stupid to see through these gas-lighting attempts.

Pointing out the flaws and half-truths in your reasoning is not gaslighting.

Your entire reply is opposing my previous question on here, instead of the current one.

I already answered you in other comments why I think your "brilliant" idea won't work.

Just ask yourself: how did a supposed troll end up being more well-read on feminism than you?

eyesrolling Yes, Snow, it's wonderfull that you have learnt so well all the lessons of so many feminists books so you can teach all the silly women how they must fight sexism and misogyny. However, if you want to impress me even more, I'd suggest you pick up next some high school biology books, from which you can read very advanced concepts about genetics like the existence of sex chromosomes and sex-linked inheritance.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

I plan to move to the UK at some point, at which point I will most certainly be changing my gender legally. It's the only legal way to "boycott" gender identity laws, by giving them a taste of their own medicine

So you plan to move to the UK and obtain legal residency there with the intent to engage in actions you hope and believe will undermine and make a mockery of current British law and the UK government's official administrative procedures? Be sure to let the immigration officials at the Home Office know.

Most of the world's governments seek to grant legal residency only to persons from foreign lands who are willing to abide by its laws, and are willing to make a declaration saying they will do so. But I am sure that when you tell British officials that you've arrived on their shores with the plan of

giving them a taste of their own medicine

They'll welcome you in with open arms. But just to be on the safe side, you might want to add that you plan to try to disrupt Parliament and will spend a lot of your time slagging off Great Britain on social media too. That way, you'll be in like Flynn.

Also, please enlighten us as to why you think you have the right "to move to the UK" and obtain legal indefinite leave to remain so that you could get British identity documents. Exactly which specific criteria for settlement in the UK do you meet under British law? Or are you planning to tell British government authorities that you've decided to "boycott" their immigration laws just as you aim to "boycott" their gender identity laws?

https://www.gov.uk/indefinite-leave-to-remain

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/uk-visas-and-immigration

Thanks for demonstrating that the attitude of male arrogance and disregard for other people's boundaries that has led to so much intrusivity today doesn't just apply to blokes who believe they have the right to identify into the female sex class; to invade and stake claim on female sports, spaces and services; and to deny female people our basic rights. Some blokes regard entire foreign countries as their own personal domains too, so much so that it never occurs to them that nations are supposed to be the ones to decide which foreigners they let onto their soil and grant residency to. Those who understand and respect borders and boundaries know it's not supposed to be up to foreign interlopers with brass necks just to barge in on other nations' turf and say "I've moved here and live here now because this is where I wanna be."

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I'm not a foreigner, so your tangent was a waste of time.

You're being inconsistent. I asked you what you thought about GC men identifying as trans & you said:

"Go for it. When Zuby identified as a woman so he could break the women's world record in weightlifting, he got a lot of mileage out of it and seemed to bring attention to the issue. Graham Lineham identified as a woman and a lesbian on a dating app to bring attention to all the "transbians" doing that"

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/8qwr/gc_should_gc_men_identify_as_transgender_to/wfm8

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

How am I being inconsistent? Some time ago, you asked what others here thought about you claiming to be a woman/trans as some other men had done. I said "go for it."

Now you've come back months later to announce that you in your snowmanly wisdom have decided that feminist "GC" women should claim to be trans too because for some reason that isn't clear to me (nor to anyone else it seems) you are of the opinion that

If all GC feminists identified as transgender that would cause a major upset within transgenderism.

But since no GC feminists here said "yes boss man, brilliant idea, we'll get right on that," you're now berating women as bad feminists for not following your orders. LOL.

This is sorta like my kids asking if I think they should clean their bedrooms and I say "go for it," and hours later they come back to pester me, "Mom, why haven't you cleaned our rooms yet? When are you gonna hop to and start the hoovering?" And when I say, "I never said I'd clean your room, I said 'yes, go for it' when you asked if I thought you should clean your rooms," they start telling me I'm a crap mother for not cleaning their rooms and that I contradict myself besides.

As for the UK bit: if you're already a citizen or legal resident of the UK and you have UK-issued ID documents, then I don't understand why you would say

I plan to move to the UK at some point, at which point I will most certainly be changing my gender legally.

Coz when people are already citizens or legal residents of the UK, most wouldn't say "I plan to move to the UK at some point." They'd say something more along the lines of, "I plan to return to the UK at some point," or "I plan to resume residence in the UK again at some point." But maybe something is getting lost in translation due to my own USA-version of English. Like the saying goes, the British and Americans are "two peoples divided by a common language."

That aside, if you are a UK citizen or legal resident already, there's no need to wait until you return there to get your gender changed legally. You can change your gender by deed poll online, or by making a statutory declaration.

https://www.ngalaw.co.uk/knowledge-centre/changing-your-name-and-gender-marker-in-the-uk

This company will provide and fill out the paperwork for you to change your gender by deed poll for £18:

https://deedpolloffice.com/apply

https://deedpolloffice.com/change-name/changing-your-gender#:~:text=You%20can%20use%20a%20change,the%20rest%20of%20your%20life.

Also, the whole process for getting a Gender Recognition Certificate in the UK is done by mail, so presumably it's possible for British citizens and residents living abroad to get a GRC. It just involves sending in an application. No personal appearance is required.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/995305/t451-eng.pdf

So rather than waste your time whingeing that women won't do as you tell us to, maybe your energies would be better spent putting your money where your mouth is by getting cracking on those UK gender change applications. Like you said before, that's the best way of

giving them a taste of their own medicine

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What would you be losing if you did it though? Answer: your "gender identity", which you acknowledge is nothing. But the fact that you're unwilling to lose it, suggests that gender identification is not as insubstantial as GC feminists claim. I'm not telling you to do it, I'm trying to spur on some introspection. I'm asking why don't (in general & in the past) GC feminists get their gender legally changed?

Thanks for the links, you've saved my a step. But I'm still not going to change it until I move to the UK (I've never properly lived there, hence why I didn't say "move back", so I haven't got an official "place of residence" yet). I have every intention of "putting my money where my mouth is" & as soon as I do, trust me, you'll hear about it. But as you said, it won't change your mind since I'm male & your female. For the record, I have no trouble acknowledging that male transitioners gain a hell of a lot more credence than female ones, however, that doesn't mean there is no political leverage to be gained by GC women en masse changing their gender. I firmly believe that if there had been a bunch of Lauren Southerns doing it in Canada, they'd be able to draw more attention to the issue.

P.S. I think it's totally legitimate for someone to point out the hypocrisy of someone with a messy room telling others to clean theirs, see: Jordan Peterson.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not "unwilling to lose" my "gender identity," LOL. I don't have a gender identity! Stop telling me and others here that we do have gender identities. And FFS, man, stop telling women what to do.

You are trying to make it seem that the only reason feminists here are not compliantly rushing off to change the sex markers on our passports, driver's licenses, medical records, birth certificates and such the way you have decided we all should do in order to bring down transgenderism is that despite what we say, in our heart of hearts we really do all secretly have gender identities - and we are so wedded to our gender identities that we can't bear to part with them.

When, in fact, the reason no GC feminists here are jumping up and doing as you have decreed we must is that we find your idea unimpressive, without merit and think it would be a pointless, performative waste of time. Plus, we resent the officious, pompous, bossy way you have issued your diktat from on high.

Me, I personally think your idea is moronic, silly and puerile. You are free to call your idea a grand "strategy" and to believe that will strike a blow against transgenderism and cause the whole movement to crumble, but others are free to think your idea is a dumb brain fart that belongs in the bin.

P.S. I think it's totally legitimate for someone to point out the hypocrisy of someone with a messy room telling others to clean theirs, see: Jordan Peterson.

Huh? In the scenario I gave, I wasn't telling my kids to clean their bedrooms; I simply said yes when they asked me if I thought they should clean their bedrooms. Also, where do you get off suggesting I'm the one "with a messy room"?

Given your user name, I would've have thought that you understood the old adage "when you assume you make an ass out of u and me" but like so much else, the meaning of that little nugget seems beyond your grasp.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't believe I have a gender identity in the transgender sense, hence why I have no problem getting it changed, you say have no problem with me getting it changed either. But you seem to have a problem with getting yours changed. The reasons you give: it's silly, puerile, moronic. Inconsistent. So you're being disingenuous. Whatever the real reason is you're unwilling to give it, inexplicably.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

He seriously seems to think that he has single handedly solved sexism if only these stupid uppity women would listen and do what he says, without even a hint of irony. Male feminist poster child.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He also seems convinced that he's endowed with either omniscience or magical mind-reading skills, and as a result he knows what women on this sub - and women generally - really think and feel, which is the opposite of what we say.

In his view, feminists, female users of this sub and women generally are all either a) so stupid and lacking in self-awareness that don't know our own minds and hearts, or b) just plain liars who can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything, not even about our own "lived experience" and innermost thoughts. Typical brogressive.

[–]againstpedorights 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

🤢